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Discussion starter · #41 ·
Rog02,

Glad you decided to throw in. I named this thread "Bronze Brazing of Cast Iron" specifically to try and differentiate between this and other forums of Brazing (like Silver brazing where you use capillary action). Another old school term for what I was trying to make this thread about is "Bronze Welding".

You and I were both holding forth on this subject in a thread started by a member from Martha's Vineyard. Can't for the life of me recall his screen name though.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
I'd hope to do some more bronze brazing yesterday on a skillet but another small (paying) TIG job showed up that I had to give priority to. I did however manage to get the ear on the JD part whittled out of the pad I'd built up to replace the missing piece.

Next step for this is probably another quick trip thru the blast cabinet and then painting.



 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
Finally got around to trying to do some bronze brazing on an old skillet I had the other day. Oh man it did not go well. In fact it devolved into a train wreck of biblical proportions rather quickly. The horror...... As soon as the forums will let me post pictures again I'll give a tutorial on how to turn a skillet into scrap metal in 3 easy steps.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
The great skillet debacle of ought eighteen.....

This skillet had a dimple in the bottom of it that wouldn't let it sit very flat on an electric stove burner and made it a PITA to try and cook with. Other than that though it was all in one piece with no cracks in it before I attempted to "fix" it.



First step was to take a zip disc and make two cuts across the center of the dimple. About 2 minutes after I finished making the second cut (as it was sitting on the table and I was getting the torch ready to go) I heard a loud "tink" and found it had cracked off both ends of that one cut.



The next thing I did was heat a band up to around bright orange between the ends of the cuts and try and tunk the center parts down about an 1/8" to get the raised spot out. This picture shows how well that idea worked out. That piece that's still on there is just one light hammer tap from not being attached. Plus some where along the way in there I heard another loud "snap" when one of those cracks coming off the end of that one cut propagated the rest of the way to the rim of the skillet.

 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Unbelievably (in hindsight any way) at this point I was still thinking I could save it. So I got it clamped up like this, some grooves ground half way thru some of the cracks in hopes of getting some brazed tacks on in a few places to hold things while I repositioned it so I could get the broke off pieces clamped back in place and some more groove-age cut.



Being in full on "this thing ain't gonna whip me" mode at this point I fired up the torch and tried to get some bronze on it in a few places in those grooves I cut. I just couldn't get it to take any where. I either way overheated it or grease from the surrounding area ran down in the groove on to the faying surfaces as it was coming up to temperature and then burnt up and left a layer of carbon on the die grinder cut surfaces. What ever it was the faying surfaces were repealing the bronze almost like arc blow does at times when you're stick welding. After 4 attempts in 4 different places my common sense finally kicked back in and all the pieces went in the scrap bin.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
In an attempt to win back some of my self esteem after that skillet had bitch slapped me I went off in this direction. Thought it might make for a good practice tutorial for those who've never done any of this before but want to try it. There's no reason I can think of that starting out practicing on regular steel won't help get you ready to tackle a repair to a piece of cast iron.

Since "bead on plate" padding practice works good for other processes......

This is on some 16 Ga. sheet steel.



After a few more beads and letting it cool all the way back off and power wire brushing.

 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
A little more advanced practice project would be putting some beads on a piece of pipe. This kind of simulates building up a worn area on a shaft.

Started the bead at around 2:30 and carried it up to around 11:30 before stopping and rolling the pipe. Just kept repeating that until I had three beads around it.





After cooling off and power wire wheeling.

 
I'd hope to do some more bronze brazing yesterday on a skillet but another small (paying) TIG job showed up that I had to give priority to. I did however manage to get the ear on the JD part whittled out of the pad I'd built up to replace the missing piece.

Next step for this is probably another quick trip thru the blast cabinet and then painting.

View attachment 1684129

View attachment 1684130
that turned out great, how do you think the strength is compared to the original cast piece?
 
The great skillet debacle of ought eighteen.....

This skillet had a dimple in the bottom of it that wouldn't let it sit very flat on an electric stove burner and made it a PITA to try and cook with. Other than that though it was all in one piece with no cracks in it before I attempted to "fix" it.

View attachment 1684223

First step was to take a zip disc and make two cuts across the center of the dimple. About 2 minutes after I finished making the second cut (as it was sitting on the table and I was getting the torch ready to go) I heard a loud "tink" and found it had cracked off both ends of that one cut.

View attachment 1684224

The next thing I did was heat a band up to around bright orange between the ends of the cuts and try and tunk the center parts down about an 1/8" to get the raised spot out. This picture shows how well that idea worked out. That piece that's still on there is just one light hammer tap from not being attached. Plus some where along the way in there I heard another loud "snap" when one of those cracks coming off the end of that one cut propagated the rest of the way to the rim of the skillet.

View attachment 1684229
I wonder with all the years of heating and cooling the skillet during cooking use that it didnt become pre stressed and when you cut into it, that allowed the once one piece to go in different directions, and as cast is some what porous the years of grease being baked into the metal made it almost nonstick with the braze as it does with food...I would have tried an acid bath or muriatic acid just for kicks to see if the grease could be dissolved out of the cast for brazing, nothing to lose at this point..as monday morning quarterbacking it might have made more sense to just build up the rest of the bottom to the height of that dimple than try to lower it next time..
 
I'm thinkin' you just discovered the difference between gray cast iron, and ductile cast iron :D

Gray iron has no yield point, or more correctly........no modulus of elasticity I guess. It has good tensile strength, but it just fractures when that tensile strength is reached. So, it doesn't respond well to heating, which causes a lot of expansion/contraction. Can't flex.

Ductile will "give" up to a point, so it has a definite true yield point. More stress friendly.

Used to use cast iron for beams, but they discovered they sucked when in compression.

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/anironwill/anironwill.htm

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/castweldstitch/castweldstitch.htm

Cast iron has confounded more welders/brazers than we can imagine :laugh: It's nasty stuff.
 
The great skillet debacle of ought eighteen.....

This skillet had a dimple in the bottom of it that wouldn't let it sit very flat on an electric stove burner and made it a PITA to try and cook with. Other than that though it was all in one piece with no cracks in it before I attempted to "fix" it.

View attachment 1684223

First step was to take a zip disc and make two cuts across the center of the dimple. About 2 minutes after I finished making the second cut (as it was sitting on the table and I was getting the torch ready to go) I heard a loud "tink" and found it had cracked off both ends of that one cut.

View attachment 1684224

The next thing I did was heat a band up to around bright orange between the ends of the cuts and try and tunk the center parts down about an 1/8" to get the raised spot out. This picture shows how well that idea worked out. That piece that's still on there is just one light hammer tap from not being attached. Plus some where along the way in there I heard another loud "snap" when one of those cracks coming off the end of that one cut propagated the rest of the way to the rim of the skillet.

View attachment 1684229
You discovered what happens when you don't follow the first thing with crack repair. Drill a hole to terminate the crack . There had to have been a fair amount of stress in the skillet when it warped.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
You discovered what happens when you don't follow the first thing with crack repair. Drill a hole to terminate the crack . There had to have been a fair amount of stress in the skillet when it warped.
MJD,

Your right, as soon those cracks appeared I should have stopped drilled the ends of them. Not sure that by its self though would have kept it from eventually derailing and ending up in the scrap bin. What can I say, mistakes were made.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
BTW..........you gotta new crack starting next to where you brazed the new ear on the door thingy.

I HATE CAST IRON :realmad:
Dam, you Okies are a hard lot to please.

I see what you're saying though about it looking like another crack in the picture. I'm pretty sure that's not a crack though and just a visual anomaly in the picture. A weird trick of the light on a rough surface (only) feature. I'd take another picture from a different angle and post it but I've already put a couple of rattle can coats of Emerald Green on it.

Cracked or not though I'm pretty sure it'll be up to the rigors of spending the rest of it's life either hanging on the wall or sitting on a shelf.
 
The great skillet debacle of ought eighteen.....

This skillet had a dimple in the bottom of it that wouldn't let it sit very flat on an electric stove burner and made it a PITA to try and cook with. Other than that though it was all in one piece with no cracks in it before I attempted to "fix" it.

View attachment 1684223

First step was to take a zip disc and make two cuts across the center of the dimple. About 2 minutes after I finished making the second cut (as it was sitting on the table and I was getting the torch ready to go) I heard a loud "tink" and found it had cracked off both ends of that one cut.

View attachment 1684224

The next thing I did was heat a band up to around bright orange between the ends of the cuts and try and tunk the center parts down about an 1/8" to get the raised spot out. This picture shows how well that idea worked out. That piece that's still on there is just one light hammer tap from not being attached. Plus some where along the way in there I heard another loud "snap" when one of those cracks coming off the end of that one cut propagated the rest of the way to the rim of the skillet.

View attachment 1684229
MJD,

Your right, as soon those cracks appeared I should have stopped drilled the ends of them. Not sure that by its self though would have kept it from eventually derailing and ending up in the scrap bin. What can I say, mistakes were made.
It's a real good reason when doing any kind of crack repair, regardless of material, why it's good practice. That skillet probably made some weird noises when you worked with it.
 
Dam, you Okies are a hard lot to please.

I see what you're saying though about it looking like another crack in the picture. I'm pretty sure that's not a crack though and just a visual anomaly in the picture. A weird trick of the light on a rough surface (only) feature. I'd take another picture from a different angle and post it but I've already put a couple of rattle can coats of Emerald Green on it.

Cracked or not though I'm pretty sure it'll be up to the rigors of spending the rest of it's life either hanging on the wall or sitting on a shelf.
Naw, not a crap on your head deal from me. Having the nutz to attempt relatively thin cast iron is more than half the battle :cool2: That ear is in a bad place, it gets thin near the edge of that casting. I'd of left it sitting on the shelf, not brave enuff to tackle it.
 
Nice info, my skillets brazed back together easily with no extra cracking, but they were new, thin and cheap. (I remember some girls like that!) I burnt up a lot of brass rods on skillets, cast drain pipe and a manifold, will try and put up some pics later. Nothing to brag about that's for sure. Soon I will braze my Baldor grinder guard but it will have to wait a few weeks. We are rushing to get projects wrapped up at work so we can take a week off for our annual Fathers and Sons Mexico fishing trip. Any spare time now is spent preparing for the trip.
 
Nice thread on brazing cast iron, but o/a and cast iron in stick form will give you a better color and texture match.Repair on the door
would have been easier with a piece of cast from an old bath tub and done with o/a and put in a brick enclosure with preheat to prevent
the cracks from contraction while cooling.
Brazing is a good repair ,but on many things o/a is a much better repair . Manifolds are much better done with o/a because the temp
change will eventually make the braze pull away from the iron. I think the case boiler cover can be done with the o/a cast iron in the
brick oven with 1200 deg preheat . I do many manifolds for show tractors and they should not show the repair .

below are some photos of the repair of a mianus exhaust manifold from 1920.

Full sequence here ---http://imageevent.com/gmachine/manifoldandcastironrepair/mianusexhmanifold


george

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