Whenever I used to get worm tracks, the first thing I did was peel off a layer of wire and throw it in the trash. That usually fixed the problem.
However, I was not the one paying for this wire. Worm tracks are really just a surface indication, they don't go past the bottom of the track. IME, they are caused by wet flux in the wire, but I have seen guys claim they got it from a brand new roll. I have also seen them come from not enough gas. Sounds like you already eliminated this cause.
There's no porosity involved. You can grind them down, or fill them in.

 

Arc length can also be a factor along with too high of voltage setting. Chances are it's probably the wire or too low of a gas flow. It's not uncommon to be in the 45-55 cfh range, especially at higher amperage.

 

I worked in a shop where a guy threw the Mig gun across the floor because he got worm tracks. He wasn't the only one. We were welding base plates with gussets on flare stacks and it seems for no reason you'd all of a sudden get worm tracks when nothing else changed. 3/4 of it welded up fine, then you go to do the final section and get worm tracks. It was PIA to grind out the welds to repair them. Usually had porosity under the worn tracks so had to grind the whole weld out with a die grinder. Someone suggested maybe the nozzle was getting too hot but that didn't make a lot of sense. Have also heard the flux in the wire can be uneven and cause worm tracks. Too much gas flow can cause turbulence.

 

Willie, you did not disclose what your actual CTWD was. I'm willing to bet it was too close. Also, you should disclose your wire diameter, nozzle diameter, V/WFS.

 

Striving for 1", but sometimes as little as 3/4, and as much as 1-1/4"That seemed not to change much. .045" Ultracore. Voltage & feed as instructed on Millermatic 252.

 

I guess technically there is no question, so no need to disclose the important stuff to help.

 

Climb down Oscar. I screwed up. I apologize, I answered your question but failed to click Post Quick Reply. It has been a rough day.

As I understand, "worm holes" are nitrogen escaping. I'm not clear where the nitrogen comes from.

I'm perplexed that I was able to lay a perfect weld on plate horizontal, in the same slight breeze that I couldn't weld vertical.

I love dual shield. Mostly, I love the way it deposits more metal without sag in a vertical weld. Much of my machinery welds are outdoors as the garage doors are only 8 feet tall. I've had another bay planned for years with a 12 foot door. Haven't yet found money or time.

If I can't do it outdoors, it's a real deal breaker.

 

I googled worm holes, all the internet offers is a video from the red haired guy, I don't know his name. He talks about careful storage.

It might be a year since I used this reel. I put it in a plastic bag, stored it upstairs in the garage where it is consistently 10 degrees warmer in winter, and 20 degrees warmer in summer. Humidity always low.

I doubt the storage theory, as I made perfect horizontal weld.

 

We're the voltage and wfs the same? Something has to be different, as I can't believe the position would have that effect.

 

I wonder if it has to do with gas coverage. Even with nozzle spray spatter builds up fast. I don't remember for sure, but I wonder if I had recently cleaned the nozzle. I find dual shield needs it very often, I probably cleaned the nozzle 4 or 5 times while struggling with it. I stayed with the same 400 amp Bernard gun with the massive nozzles & contact tips even when I went back to hard wire. The 25 gun that came with the welder has been rebuilt a few times as it overheats welding the thick stuff.

 

Willie, check this. https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-....com/en-us/support/welding-solutions/Pages/gas-marks-on-fcaw-process-welds.aspx

 

That's the one I was going to link as well. Good article.

 

Sometimes CO2 is a better outdoor gas. It has a little bit better staying power without CFH so high that you aspirate the weld. Other issues like flux coverage in the wire can do this too as well as to slow of travel speed like what is needed in Vertical up. I always store the 71T-1 with plenty of desiccant packs.

 

The famous dual shield worm tracks. Gotta love them.
Clean rust free wire is a must.
Dual shield also requires more stick out. 3/4”-1” stick out should be good.

 

Get inside and try it. Your never going to figure it out until you eliminate variables. There is no real answer as to how much wind is acceptable as it all comes down to how well the gas stays where your welding. Porosity is entirely different than worm tracks and the cause is usually entirely different. Start with Miller's recommend settings with clean metal, inside, and work from there. The settings I believe are for c-25 and should be within plus or minus a volt. If using co,2 you will most likely need to up the volts by 1-3 volts.

 

No it's not just moisture that can lead to this, as the Lincoln article that Louie linked to states. I have some old 71m Lincoln FCAW-G wire that I had the same issue with and I was told it would happen, but I actually made it work pretty good. I'd love to share what I found, but I don't like to make "blind" suggestions, because they are of no use to anyone. I like to learn the hard data which has yet to be provided (V/WFS/nozzle orifice diameter,etc) so I can compare it to my findings. It sounds like you just want to have a conversation/chit-chat about it and not really looking for help to get the project/work going/up and running.

 

Sorry, Life stood in the way.

Bernard gun, I can't remember the model

Nozzle diameter: 5/8"

Contact tip recess into end of nozzle: 1/8"

As suggested on Miller chart on the welder voltage 24.3

Speed: 380 IPM

Miller suggests 25 CFH, I have tried 30,35, and 40.

Steel welded: 1" thick Hot rolled, butt weld, cut 38 degrees from both sides both pieces with approximately 1/16 land spaced 1/16". Vertical up, a series of overlapping stringer beads.


On a few occasions I've been smart enough to solve a problem, but I've needed someone to punt me in the right direction.

I was very frustrated in 1980 when my first set of stairs I had built wasn't working. I knew for a fact 3x9 is 36. "The Earth is flat, The Devil is real, 3x9 is 36. That is about all we are sure is fact." After a frustrating half hour I gave up, went to lunch. I vented my frustration to my mother. She immediately saw the problem. Been climbing those stairs since that day.

I hoped for a easy observation that my fact wasn't fact. Oh well!

At this point I'm guessing it had more to do with not being thorough cleaning the spatter out of the bowels of the nozzle.

This weekend I hope to explore the issue further.

 

Hobart FabCO® Element™ 71M

https://www.hobartbrothers.com/uploads/pdf/datasheets/FabCO_Element_71M.pdf

SHIELDING GAS: 75-90% Argon (Ar)/Balance Carbon Dioxide (CO2) 35-50 cfh (14-24 l/min)


Lincoln UltraCore ® 71A85

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/ass...ucts/Consumable_Flux-CoredWires-Gas-Shielded-UltraCore-UltraCore71A85/c3126.pdf

Shielding Gas
75% - 85% Argon / Balance CO2
Flow Rate: 40 - 50 CFH


Your numbers (volts,ipm) look just like the hobart spec's, the lincolns have a broad range listed. The only thing different is the flow(CFH) , they are both higher than what your running.


I did notice on the Hobart pictograph in the upper left corner of the first page, they shows vertical up with the gun pointed up slightly. In one of jodies dual shield videos he uses the lincoln book, and it called for a 5deg upward angle. I think thats the most challenging part of the flux core is trying to keep the same gun angle and distance all the way up the work. With short circuit mig you can tell by the sound if your CTWD changes, with flux core its seems far more subtle to me.
I was in the garage, and decided to try some of my olde blue demon wire on some old rusty steel. I was surprized by how little tracking I got. Of course nest time I need to use it on a job I'll probably have problems with it. The last project I used it on (71M) was wheel mounting flanges for a portable gantry crane.

Its kind of like 7018 going uphill, sometimes I get moving to fast.

Maybe a picture of the weld if you get a chance.

Hope you've already figured it out
Good luck

 

File a patent before someone steals your idea.

 

Thank you. That is a lot of information. I guess I was thinking of the large nozzle as a similar effect to a gas lens in TIG. Thought I'd reduce turbulence in the gas. I'll find a smaller nozzle, meanwhile increase gas flow & voltage.

In the past successful welds this seemed more similar to a spray weld process where the wire disappeared into a needle just before contact. The superior ability of dual shield to stay put without sag is the big appeal to me.

I hope to find time this weekend to try your parameters. I can't find Bernard parts locally, Airgas orders them for me, but hazardous material, handling, shipping, fuel, and tax once brought the price of a stubby TIG back cap to $48.!

 

I'll find a smaller nozzle, meanwhile increase gas flow & voltage.

Bill, if you are getting true porosity and not just worm tracks, the issue is gas coverage or lack thereof. I would increase the flow rate and consider using straight CO2. I would also put up better windbreaks around your welding area to keep the breezes out. Not sure I would increase the voltage as that may lead to the actual worm tracks.

 

For the voltage, I was going by the Lincoln literature that suggests 24V is more adept to running 300-350 IPM. But you're right that too much could cause more worm tracks. This is where Willie needs to be careful and try only one change at a time.

Willie, smaller nozzle won't necessarily help, because you would want more total CO2 present in the shielding gas. A smaller nozzle @ 40 CFH is not the same as a larger nozzle @ 50 CFH. At 50 CFH you're "presenting" more CO2 to the puddle, which I feel will help. Your 5/8" nozzle is just fine so long as you bump up your gas flow to the 48-53 CFH range (I suspect this will help). If it doesn't then you move on to something else to try.

 

Also, you should give more credence to the wire manufacturer than the welder manufacturer regarding operating procedures. Not sure which version of Ultracore you are using, but all the operating procedures are available from Lincoln online. https://www.lincolnelectric.com/ass...s/Consumable_Flux-CoredWires-Gas-Shielded-UltraCore-UltraCore360-M71/c31251.pdf

 

update?

 

It's 8 AM here. Yesterday was our 39th anniversary. It was Nancy's day. I'm heading out to do a bit of fabrication. I'll try more gas.

Should I try more volts, or fewer IPM?

 

What ever you do, do it systematically by only changing one thing at a time, and write down notes. Otherwise you will come back and say you "tried everything" which will help no one.

 

I placed three sheets of plywood for wind control It won't fit in the garage. Doors are 8' tall, hoe is at least 8'9" tall. 26' bays. hoe is 30+ long. With enough effort I can extend the hoe to the back wall where there would be less air current. I haven't tried that yet.

Today it was plywood wind screens, and more shielding gas, being diligent about CTWD.

No improvement today.

This project has taken too long! My customers & my wife are demanding an end. MIG is doing the job. Dual shield is wasting time.

A friend & customer was pressing for us to do a three day earth moving project. I jumped the gun on the thumb build & went to work with a brace not yet there. I reasoned it was plenty strong without, I'd be careful.

It bent. First order of business today was straightening the 1X4 11" long the hydraulic cylinder acts on. I built a box to use a 20 ton hydraulic jack to push it back to shape. Didn't want excess weld I'd then have to grind off. First weld to break at 40000 lbs was non eventful.

The mess you see in pictures is the first broken weld repaired in a not pretty way. Ultimately two other welds failed simultaneously in an explosive manner.

Dual shield with plywood wind screens. 50 CFH Argon 75/CO2 25. Lincoln Ultra core. .045" My regulator won't go higher.
Barely perceptible wind. If i dropped a dry leaf it'd land a foot vertically from where it was dropped.

 

Lincoln Ultra core. .045" My regulator won't go higher.

Those are very bad as in, not just worm tracks, there is porosity. Like someone else mentioned, there are lots of Lincoln Ultra-core's.

Have you every successfully welded with this exact roll using C25?

If you look HERE, some Lincoln Ultracore wires use only 100% CO2. Which exact Ultra Core are you using?

 

hat specific UltraCore? There are different variations and not all use mixed gas.

 

Try a new spool of wire. I have ran out of gas while welding and it wasn't anywhere near that bad before I realized I was running out.

 

I find dual shield fairly forgiving, the way those beads look it seems like you have a major issue like bad gas or wire, more than just a technique of CFH issue. Check out this beautiful turd I laid down when I forgot to open my gas. So thats's with NO shielding gas at all, yours look almost as bad.

Thats with Lincoln wire as well. 71Supreme .

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I don’t know what your prep is like, but I have experienced similar porosity with Esab Dual Shield 70 Ultra Plus. In my case it’s almost always contaminants....traces of grease, paint, rust, plasma cutter dross,etc. IME, dual shield is less tolerant of contaminants than solid wire mig.

I stand to get flamed for this, but I sometimes find that foreword/back manipulation of the puddle helps in the case of contamination. Run ahead 1/4” to get the crap boiling out, then fall back and dwell in the puddle to fill out any pockets left behind, then run ahead again.... Also, it seems constant oscillation helps to encourage the contaminants to float out - don’t stay straight and steady like you normally would with dual shield. Not in line with approved procedures I’m sure, but it seems to help.


Edit....looking back at your pictures, I’m even more convinced that your culprit could be rust/paint/grease/water. Is this possible?

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