The problem is that you can buy an argon tank, but if the only place you can go to get gas requires a rental contract, they won't even accept your cylinder. As a result, you may have no choice but to do the annual lease.

Occasionally, auto parts stores will do a program with those companies (for example, National Welders/Airgas), and will let you purchase the cylinder outright, even though it's in affiliation with Airgas. That's what I do. Bought the cylinder outright from them, then just swap and pay the gas cost with no lease.

If places WILL take tanks on exchange without a lease, you can usually buy direct from them, or online from Indiana Oxygen Company.

 

Tim..Our local H/Fsells both the regulator an small tanks. but as Supe has stated you may have trouble getting them filled. The reg. sells for like $34 an the tank is like $79.

 

if you would be so kind, could you find the part numbers on both those items? or at least a link where i can find them. i went onto the HF website and cant find any regulators or tanks.

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94841
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92810

 

thanks a bunch!! any idea how long a 20 cu.ft. tank will last while welding in terms of hours of use? ( or minutes *shivers*)

 

read this good info. http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=363431#post363431

Scroll to post #9

 

Also a good place to post questions on H/F products. Is in the H/F section of this forum

 

Tim,

Read my response in your other mig/tig thread.

You're going at this all wrong.

Don't buy a machine that won't do the job you need done. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

You need to do "A LOT" more homework before you plunk down your hard earned dollars.

 

X2.


As far as how long a 20 cf cyl lasts, expect 1 hr to 1 1/2 hrs roughly. You will be better off getting a larger cylinder to start with. Gas usually costs less per cf in larger bottles. I can get my small 100 cf O2 bottle filled for about $5 less than I can get my 282cf O2 bottle filled. A good part of the money is in handling, Hazmat charges and so on, and very little is in actual gas costs. Thats almost 3x the gas for like 10% more money. Also If you want to do a project on a weekend and you have used some of the tank already, you'll either run out and have to stop, or have to swap out a partially filled cyl to have a full one to work with. The only advantage of small cyl are for those guys that do a lot of mobile work and need to lug the cyl around. I'd suggest a minimum of an 80cf cyl for most guys and You are best off getting as big a cyl as you can afford. It's cheaper in the long run, especially when you figure in gasoline to make multiple runs for refills.

As far as where to get the cylinders, about 1/2 of mine came from my local welding supply (LWS). The other 1/2 came frome yard sales, CL and with machines. I started off with a 40cf originally and quickly upgraded to a 60cf then added an 80cf as a spare for weekends. The 60cf later got upgraded to a 100cf and then a 125cf. Now even though I have the 80cf, a 125cf and a 100cf, I usually use a rental 282cf because it's less expensive overall, and save the small cyl for odd gasses or for when I need a mobile cylinder to work away from my house.

 

my hf reg is cheap but has held up good. their tanks are way too small and overpriced. as stated elsewhere, make sure you have a local gas supply taht will fill customer owned bottles and then get a used one with current pressure test of ebay or craigslist.

if you are thinking of getting a hf mig exclusively for alu welding i would recommend you to reconsider. awhile back i actually wired my 151 mig with .8mm 4043 alu wire and a tank of argon just to try it out on some 3mm scraps. on the upside i really had no problems with birdsnesting ( i think the short cable helps) but the results ranged from poor to terrible. aluminum mig welding is not easy any way you cut it, and trying to learn it with a budget welder and no spoolgun is really a recipe for disaster

 

...aluminum mig welding is not easy any way you cut it, and trying to learn it with a budget welder and no spoolgun is really a recipe for disaster

+1

(And +1 on the tiny tank being the very expensive way to go as soon as you need to refill it a couple of times.)

 

Well,

There is an eBay seller who sells Argon 100% and 75/25% bottles FILLED or empty, delivered to your door cheaply via UPS from MINN or MISS, with no tax going to lazy and hostile State bureaucracies.

I bought two recently, like this one, from an eBay seller named Weldfabulous:

http://cgi.ebay.com/FULL-125-Cu-Ft-...15046749QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item519067675d#ht_3737wt_941

At $291.44, plus only $14.95 shipping for such a nice, large, FILLED bottle, I was well satisfied. I mean, small bottles must be a drag, as even at 125 CF, my bottles run out after about a full day at a TIG welding project, even with a modest flow rate.

They have smaller bottles too, with similar values much of the time, I think.

Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone

 

...

I bought two recently, like this one, from an eBay seller named Weldfabulous:

curious, chris: were those argon bottles IN boxes, or 'unboxed' when they arrived at your place? or did you have to go down pick them up at the UPS terminal? if you DID have to pick them up at the terminal, same question: were the boxed, or unboxed? or maybe they weren't "boxed" but 'wrapped'? or something?

thanks chris for any info on this :drinkup:

 

Interesting. Some how I have a feeling the UPS would have some issues with this policy. My guess is that the supplier simply doen't follow the rules. FAA/TSA has some pretty ridgid restrictions on carrying compressed gas cylinders on aircraft even as cargo. Usually the cylinders need to be shipped with the valves removed and at atmostpheric pressure. Catastrophic failures and planes falling from the sky tends to make them cranky. All it would take is cargo shifting to shear a valve and off the tank goes thru the side of the aircraft.

The only way I've ever seen this done was by ground freight. We had to jump thru all sorts of hoops with the shipping company to get a special gas blend / custom cylider configuration to a customer who had his cylinders stolen and had to get replacements ASAP all the way down in Florida from Pa. It almost came down to me having to drive them down myself.

I'll have to look into this more.

 

Yeah,

I was a little surprised, too, because they were the only eBay seller that seemed to ship FILLED bottles. I'm sure it was UPS GROUND ONLY, though. And shipment only took about 5 days to the Rocky Mountain area, after a payment via PayPal.

All shipping rules were probably or undoubtedly followed, as the bottle arrived boxed, with added HASMAT labels, etc.

Interestingly, when I asked this seller if they could ship FILLED CO2 bottles (for beer homebrewing), they said that they could not, for some reason.

Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone

 

Having just done all of this recently, here is the synopsis of what you will or might find (assuming you're getting something like the HF 110amp welder):

1) It's on sale now, so you can get it for $169. My coupon shows the price until February 28.
2) HF always has 20% coupons all over the place, so I used that on one of their 20cu ft tanks.
3) My local gas supply place only trades out 40cu ft or larger, so to get a 75/25 mix in my tank I had to leave it for a half hour. Not a big deal, but I figured I'd mention my experience.
4) Flux core wire included with the welder is supposed to suck. I bought a roll of Lincoln wire at Lowes and it worked well (before I got the gas set up). My welds weren't entirely pretty, but they held well enough for the welding table I made.
5) The HF welder pretty much feeds current directly, so you have an inconsistent weld pool with the gas (probably without it also but the flux core wire seemed to work better with this). In the Harbor Freight forums on here there are instructions for adding on a few elecronic parts to get a more even current on the thing. I'm in the process of getting the parts to do this now. Once I get this working I'll post the results of the upgrade on the HF forums.

I'm using a Hobart in a welding class I've been taking for a while and it definitely works a LOT better than the HF welder. That said, however, the HF welder works and I can weld things together. I wouldn't want to count on it for fancy welds, but it's good enough to play with at home for now and I can get half decent welds out of it. For the substantially lower cost, I'm pretty satisfied with what I've got. If I really keep up with us and churn out a steady stream of projects, I'll want to upgrade at some point but I think I will get my moneys worth from this setup.

 

Most places won't fill a tank that isn't theirs because they don't like filling, they just wana exchange. Tanks are filled in batches, not one at a time.

You can't swap a tank unless its one that the LWS sells cause its not in their system, and not in the hydro/visual cycle. A cylinder they own is controlled, and they know exactly what they are filling.

Around here, one store won't even touch another stores tank.

 

Locally, one LWS leases, rents or sells. A 125 cf gas tank is about $200. Another only leases or rents short term. Nice people, but expensive. A third, family run outfit leases, rents or sells. As near as I can tell, no one will "fill a tank" for you. They want to exchange and they all make a pretty big deal about how you have to be "registered".

Started with a 60 A and a 60 O, and got frustrated. Then I got a 145 A and a 125 O. I keep the little tanks in case of an emergency, should I run out mid-project. Haven't needed them in 25 years.

The O/A tanks are all from the first outfit. Now that I'm considering MIG/TIG, I'd like to aquire a couple of bottles, for argon and for a C25 mix. Years ago, one could find the bought tanks used, but these days, I have been unable to .

Oh, one other thing...if you buy from an outfit, and exchange their tanks, there is never a hydro charge.

 

I live in the Springfield Ma area and ran into the same problem last year. I went to all the local welding supply shops and nobody wanted to sell me one. Then I returned with the info from ebay and it was a different story. I bought a 125cf tank for around $275 filled with tax and they will swap it for me as needed. Good luck

 

If you are in the Connecticut area I have a few cylinders for sale.I have 6 Oxygen 244cf, 2 Arg/Co2/75-25 244cf, 2 acetylene 145cf, 1 80cf 75/25 mix and a few smaller cylinders. I know a company that has 6 locations in CT and will accept anybodys cyl as long as it is in date. They swap them out. Call me if you are interested. 203-509-2540 Thanks,AJ

 

I got tired of reading everyones so if this is a repost im sorry. but dont buy the smallest tank its not even worth it. there is a tank that is before the big suckers that buying one filled cost me 175$ and it will cost 36$ to fill it will 75/25%. for my strait argon tank same size cost me 180$ filled and will cost me 40 to fill it. but i havent had to have either filled just yet and i have hours clocked of welding on them.

 

Oh, the company i go through is praxair. im not sure if you have one around you but just thought id let you know.

 

I first got the smaller tanks so that I could move my equipment around, like when working at friend's places, etc. The reality is I never did that, and got larger tanks. The 125 cf O2 doesn't take any real manhandling, where as a 244 cf O2 starts getting big. When I got the 125, it cost $6 to fill it, and the 60 cf cost $5. I think the price is now $12 and $15.

So there are good reasons for getting smaller tanks...and they have nothing to do with saving money.

 

I bought a smaller tank from lincoln electric, and when it was empty it took it to praxair and they exchanged it for a full one, cost me about $50.00 for a refill

 

Call around to some different welding supply stores, Airgas wanted $197.00 empty and 37.00 to fill it for 80cft. I got 90cft full for $203.00 at a smaller chain( Rockford welding supply) So it pays to shop. I got this bottle two weeks ago and tig welding aluminum at 20lbs for about 4 hrs and steel at 15 lbs for about 4 hrs and Im almost empty and I shut off the bottle every time I stop. This econotig keeps purging gas for about 15 seconds after you let off the pedal, dont know if I like that or if it's nessesary.

 

Post flow does 2 things. One it continues gas coverage until the bead cools enough so that atmospheric contamination is no longer an issue. You'd have bead issues at the end if it just shut off. 2nd the gas helps to cool the electrode in an air cooled torch as well as shield it from contamination as it cools as well.

I don't know about that machine, some units allow you to adjust pre and post flow timers. To be honest that 15 second of gas won't probably amount to a hill of beans over all. You might be able to cut that in half at best, but I doubt you'd gain more than an extra 1/2 hour at best. In theory if you welded nonstop for 4 hrs at 20cfh you'd have emptied the 80cf cylinder. That you managed to do another 4 hrs at 15cfh shows you didn't run not stop, and is fairly typical for a cyl that size. I found right away my 80cf was way too small for tig and swapped it for my 150cf on the one mig.

 

Unfortunately Ironworker and DSW that is a shortcoming of the econotig. Pre and post flow are not adjustable. But as other posters have said it probably doesnt contribute much to over all gas consumption. The Econo is a good and reliable little welder, but it is little at 160A AC, and has a very spartan set of controls to work with. I have 2 of the largest Tractor supply Thorough bred exchange bottles for argon, and insure I always have one full. I have run out of gas on a weekend and it was no fun, thus the reason I have 2 so I dont have to stop and run to town for an exchange. I did the math and if I could get them to approve me I would save money if I leased, but I have poor credit so I have to deal with it that way.

 

Years back I traveled around installing high end stainless steel hand rails, we used miller maxstars and then the little themal dynamics 110 machines ( the size of a 12 pack of beer) without the foot pedals, just the thumb screw gas valve. I don't remember the gas going that fast, the average job was about two weeks but I would tack everything together first and then weld it up in full. This was my first time tig welding aluminum and I had a hard time, but I went back through some old post on here and after 2 days I could put down a decent bead. I played with the gas presure ( and everything else) but the best advice I read was to floor it, I was trying to weld to cold.