I've heard of it,but never seen it used. The person who told me about it said he was amazed at how well it worked.
Mike

 

I used to rebuild track frames on dozers and did this numorous times using 7018. It gets touchy when you get down below a size 1/2 inch bolt. It suprised me the first time I watched a Cat Mechanic do it but it really does work quit well. 7018 rods have enough flux to protect the threads if you never touch the sides and tap out the flux between tacks.

 

Sorry I’m not sold - yet. Let’s face it, that demonstration bolt probably could have been walked out with a prick punch. There are easier faster better ways to extract loose broken bolts. Extracting a hand assembled new bolt is a different ball game than the stuck bolt that broke while trying to turn it out.

Extracting broken off bolts by welding to them is no secret. Can be done with wire too.

So what does the kit consist of, just “old faithful” electrode? Can you test the strength of the build-up by clamping it in the vice and turning the bolt? It would be nice if they included some thin sleeves, maybe ceramic, so as to allow higher heat while protecting the threads.

Look who’s fault they say it is if things don’t go right; “If there are any problems removing the broken part, weld deposit build-up was improperly centered”

Thumbs down here, looks like overpriced electrode is all. Sorry.

 

Sorry I’m not sold - yet. Let’s face it, that demonstration bolt probably could have been walked out with a prick punch. There are easier faster better ways to extract loose broken bolts. Extracting a hand assembled new bolt is a different ball game than the stuck bolt that broke while trying to turn it out.

Extracting broken off bolts by welding to them is no secret. Can be done with wire too.

So what does the kit consist of, just “old faithful” electrode? Can you test the strength of the build-up by clamping it in the vice and turning the bolt? It would be nice if they included some thin sleeves, maybe ceramic, so as to allow higher heat while protecting the threads.

Look who’s fault they say it is if things don’t go right; “If there are any problems removing the broken part, weld deposit build-up was improperly centered”

Thumbs down here, looks like overpriced electrode is all. Sorry.

Thats kinda what I was getting at. Plain old 7018 will do the same thing and I can't remember it failing to work or having messed up threads on anything 1/2 inch and up.

 

Bond-o mentioned once using rubber fuel hose over the tip of the rod to protect the threads and do that exact same process.... and you can quench it too if needed.

 

I have used that method countless times to remove ceased bolts. Even if the bolt is broken off inside the threads aways it's possible to build up enough to weld a nut on it. I have always just used 7018 to do that though, I do not see the need for any sort of fancy rod for this application.

 

i dont know about this...

...zap!

 

Bond-o mentioned once using rubber fuel hose over the tip of the rod to protect the threads and do that exact same process.... and you can quench it too if needed.

Can you describe the exact proceedure for using the fuel line?

 

Wow class! class! youser......... Guys I 've screwed with a salesman who was selling extralloy for removing broken bolts, his directions was to stay in the center build up then install a flat washer and the weld the nut on with extractalloy so what do I do? well quite simple I burned into the threads on purpose because he wouldn't believe I could do it with wire! I have taken 5/16 exhaust bolts out of heads on cat haul trucks with an sp 100 without removing the heads the trick is to keep it centered even with the over glorified extractalloy same basic principle.I also have removed bolts that are well below the surface using a piece of pipe instead of a nut. Just saying this is nothing new and the earlier post is right it can be done without spending big bucks.

 

As a matter of fact, I just got done taking one out of an old Honda head. Used my little Miller with nr-211. The kid had broken off an easy-out about 1/8" below flush trying to get it out. Built up the easy-out and got it out. Built up the bolt and got most of it. Got tired of foolin' around and drilled big hole, welded the hole up and re-tapped it.Kid was happy---no charge.(friend of mine):drinkup:

 

I got beat to the pipe trick. I'v done this with TIG, with 7018, with 6010, with MIG. All work fine. Easiest with 7018, due to the heavy flux and 7018's ability to not crack out a hardened fastener, but when there isn't room, 6010 comes out. On large bolts, TIG is, for me, easiest, since I can build and build and build.

Even on small holes, stick works. A hunk of stainless brake line in the hole, run the rod down the center. Aluminum tube works, as well, but won't weld in on a steel fastener. Larger bolts, a stub of 1/8, 1/4, 1/2" pipe.

I have never seent hte need for the specialty rod.

 

Never had a need for special rod to remove broken studs just a wire feed or stick depending on the job.

 

See and this was the first I have herd of this. I am going to give it a shot with the 7018.

 

The rubber hose trick is just about like it sounds... just slip a 2" piece on the end of the rod and it will keep you centered and the rod can slip easily through the hose to add more to the weld.

 

I have extracted hundreds of bolts out of machinery, this is generally a clean rust free situation, but 8 out of ten I get out with a hammer and well sharpened punch and just the right amount of tap,tap, tap. I always try this first. WE always avoided welding on any of the machines,computers hate to be spiked and the owners never appreciated having multi million dollar machines sitting there not making money.

 

There are some places you don't dare break off bolts. Like the small bolts that fasten the exhaust cover plate on outboard motors that have been used in SALT water. Especially , since the steel bolts are threaded into aluminum . And, usually are only 1/4" bolts .

 

There are some places you don't dare break off bolts. Like the small bolts that fasten the exhaust cover plate on outboard motors that have been used in SALT water. Especially , since the steel bolts are threaded into aluminum . And, usually are only 1/4" bolts .

Hey Roy Hodges, Now don’t report me. Not on ¼ bolt in outboard, but in some situations, for example, like an aluminum wheel with steel nut and stud. Heat just a spot on the nut, when you start to cut, turn off the fuel, hit the oxygen, erase the stud and nut ruin the torch tip, remove and save the wheel. Protect it from spatter.

 

I need to get a broken bolt out of my dad's NH tractor.

The arms that support the underbelly mower deck are bolted to the tractor at the same location where the towers for a front end loader would mount. There is a four bolt group on each side and the mower support arms are mounted on the lower two holes (he does not have a FEL attachment so the upper two holes are currently unused).

On one side, one of the two bolts broke off about 1/4" below the casting so none of the remaining bolt is exposed. I haven't measured the bolt diameter but it looks to be about 5/8". Dad says it's been that way for a while so the broken bolt is probably rusted in pretty good.

Another potential problem is that there is also a small corner of the casting that is broken off at the broken bolt location. The depth of the broken off part is around about 1/5th of the circumference of a bolt and doesn't go too deep - say about 3/16" so it is probably fine to leave it that way.

What is the best way to tackle this with a stick welder? I can get some 7018 if necessary. Since I can't turn the tractor on its side, this will be a vertical welding application. Do I just keep adding tacks to the end of the bolt to build it up until I get a protruding nub to weld to a washer and then a nut? Also, is it OK to just chip the slag off of the end of the build up and leave it in the vicinity of the threads?

Do you need to first grind (perhaps by drilling) the end of the broken bolt to get to clean metal?

Another alternative will be to try the pipe trick. Perhaps I could find some stainless/alum/copper tubing with the same OD as the broken bolt.

 

there really are a number of ways to approach this type of situation, however, the one that I prefer utilizes the GTAW process and stainless steel filler rod. Something that is fairly common with todays engines is having the exhaust studs in aluminum heads shear off when you go to dissassemble them. Whenever possible I have the head removed when I attempt this particular method. Find a way to position the head so that the broken stud hole is in the vertical position so that when you start welding on it you can maintain a weld puddle on top of the stud (this needs to be done at a very low heat with a constant addition of filler material, you may also need to stop every so often so as not to lose control of the puddle and have the built up area collapse or go too far sideways on you). The stainless filler is my choice for rod since it is less likely to be affected by dirt, grease, rust, and othercontaminants. If you use ER70 series fillers you will likely fight the swiss cheese effect to a great degree. The heat generated by the GTAW process will tend to help to break the threads free from the effects of electrolosis, sealants, and other types of retention chemicals that may be in use. As the stud cools after the welding has been done the shrinkage that occurs will also aid in breaking the stud free. Once cooling has taken place, grip the weld build-up with your vise-grips and by working the stud back and forth and unscrewing it a little at a time you will generally be able to remove it. This also works with broken taps and screws and bolts and plugs and many other types of fasteners that might require removal. This works particularly well when you are talking about the removal of hardened and quenched bolts and studs or broken taps since they generally are not readily drilled out with most available methods. With some practice, you can actually remove items as small as a broken 4-40 tap or fastener and you can also reach into holes to depths of 1/2" or more depending on the diameter and your ability to see and stay steady while forming the weld pool and adding the filler material.

 

qaqc,

Sounds like a good method -thanks for your comments. However, I only have access to a stick welder so that's why I was trying to use the 7818 method.

Anyone know where's the best place to find small quantities of stainless tubing?

Thanks,

~Irish

 

I have done many using utetic 680. The flux forms a ring so you stay in the center and weld. I have done it with mig too. Even little bolts with the SP100. Sometimes I end up with a pile of nuts on the floor, but I most always get the bolt out. I have a set of left handed drill bits I try on the bolt first. This also gives me a good clean center. I wled hex nuts on square fill plugs for gearboxes when the plug won't come out.

When the bolt gets hot, it expands in all directions. It can't get bigger around because of the threads holding it. When it cools, it cools in all directions the same, so it helps loosen the bolt.

Weld a bead around a race inside a blind hole. When it cools, it will fall out. I put the new one in the freezer at work. The hub is warm, the new race is frozen. It slides right in.

Looks like another demo.

David

 

Yep, never needed a special rod to perform that operation. I do it quite often on logging equipment. I've used 7018, 6010, wire, and tig all with success.

 

I have used Cronotron stud pulling rods for about 12 years and pulled over a hundred bolts that were really buggered up and deep down into a threaded hole in the horizonatal position without the protection of the slag it never would have came out. Pulled from 1" to a #10 with them after other people tried their methods. I won't be with out them!

 

David,

I know from a previous thread that you keep Messer 80TAC+ rod on hand. Have you ever used it for broken bolt removal? I like this stuff because it makes a good strong (and pretty) weld but I was wondering if the slag from it would sufficiently protect the threads when using it for broken bolt remoal.

Thanks for your input.

 

Once upon a time, about fifteen years ago, I owned a JD350 dozer with 6-way blade which I used for miscellaneous projects like fixing water bars on logging roads, etc. These projects often required me to move some VW-sized rock or pop out a stump that was in an incovienient location. Using the left corner of the blade to dig under these things to get 'em moving worked well, but the process tended to twist the tractor and snap the head off the top one of three 5/8" grade 8 bolts clamping the left steering brake housing to the left frame rail. Even with the noise of the 3-cyl diesel lugging and hearing protectors on I could hear the bolt head pop off with a BANG. Invariably the break would be exactly at the end of the thread, the first couple of times almost 3/4 inch below the surface of the frame rail flange. Being under the operators seat in a small tractor this was not an easy place to get a wrench, never mind any sort of tool to drill a hole for an extractor.

The first time this happened I moaned about having to dissassemble half the tractor to get at it but a friend said he could get it out. The 7018 rod method was exactly how he did it. Using a length of 1/8" 7018 and low heat, he built up a "bead" on the broken end of the bolt until it reached the surface of the rail flange. Then he had me pin a large flat washer to the flange around the hole with a long screwdriver while he welded the bead to the washer. Next he welded a nut to the washer then used a 3/8 pneumatic spinner to remove the broken bolt.

He said he'd used this trick many times on bolts as small as 7/16 burried as deep as an inch.

I don't recall that we had to do this only once or twice, I learned to use bolts that were threaded all the way to the head and I lubricated the threads liberally with light oil when I put them in. When they broke the break was right under the head at the surface of the flange. I was then able to get a small pick onto the fractured surface and manipulate the broken stud out in the field. I got pretty good at it and could replace one in less than 10 minutes with the tractor in a hole on the side of a mountain. Asking that dinky dozer to do some rather tough work this was a common chore so I kept a supply of spare bolts in the tool kit on the tractor.

-Mondo