Just a brief update, it turns out the ESAB Rebel 205ic is able to AC TIG but the 235ic is not so I think the 205ic has replaced the 235 on my list. Oddly I saw the same thing with the Miller product line, only one of their Multimatic line of welders is AC TIG, the 220. Bakers Gas has both welders at MSRP, the ESAB they have for $3849 and the Miller for $4099.

 

If you don't absolutely need AC TIG and can work with a lift-arc DC TIG function, the HTP Pro Pulse 220MTS might fit your criteria. Has 9 pulse programs for steel, aluminum, and SS, and a total of 21 programs in all including gasless flux core and gas-shielded flux core. You can weld aluminum down to about 0.030" without a spoolgun or push-pull using a dedicated aluminum MIG gun with a carbon graphite liner that will run you about $200 when you factor in the additional U-groove drive rolls. Oh and they might be close to you, their up in the Chicago area. Maybe they will let you run one of their machines in-house for a couple of minutes.

 

They're out of Elk Grove Village which is the western edge of O'Hare airport, I was just there this afternoon...I will definitely check them out.

 

Welding machines have been selling for MSRP/ Street price for a while now. Way before pandemic times.

Airgas has always had their own tier of pricing- never shop there.

On Line:

baker's gas, Cyberweld or Welding Supplies from IOC.

Miller even updated their website a quite few years ago and listed street prices - basically same price as what their retailers were listing them at.

I think Lincoln followed as well.

*** Prices have jumped quite a bit so MSRP is what it is.

 

You are wasting your money trying to buy a multiprocess machine that will do AC TIG, in my opinion. What thickness and types of material do you commonly work with? For most TIG tasks on steel, any of the DC only multiprocess machines are probably fine. But for AC TIG I would suggest you go get a Primeweld TIG 225 https://primeweld.com/products/tig-225x-ac-dc-tig-welder AND buy a separate DC only multiprocess or a MIG. You will save a lot of money and get more features for welding aluminum than you will out of the Miller 220 or the ESAB 205i.

Pair up the Primeweld with a Hobart Ironman 240 ($2200) and you will be in right at the $3000 mark. Alternatively, go find a used Ironman 230 or Millermatic 252 or Lincoln Powermig 255/256 (all of these can be found used for around $1500 if you look hard enough) and save a few dollars more

It's hard to believe but I paid $3800 for my MM255 last June and it is currently priced at $4800..holy crap!

 

It's hard to believe but I paid $3800 for my MM255 last June and it is currently priced at $4800..holy crap!

I see it at the same price right now through a few online vendors. Unless I misunderstood what you were saying?

https://bakersgas.com/products/miller-907734?variant=28831155650613

 

Have zero experience with these, but they are husky brand from home depot (one of their store brands). Probably the same welder as other chinese vendors, but backed by a big name common store.

3 year warranty - I've never had any trouble returning husky tools, even with obvious signs of abuse, but have never had to return a welder.

$548.00 (2022)

Single Phase 180 Amp 240-Volt/120-Volt AC Wire Feed 180 MIG Wire Feed Welder with Foot Pedal and Dual Voltage Technology

Output (120V): 10A - 70A (Stick); 10A - 90A (TIG); 30A -140A (MIG)
Output (240V): 10A - 170A (Stick); 10A - 180A (TIG); 30A -180A (MIG)
Duty cycle (120V): 70A@40% (Stick); 90A@40% (TIG); 90A@40% (MIG)
Duty cycle (240V): 170A@25% (Stick); 180A@25% (TIG); 180A@25% (MIG)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-S...-pip_sponsored-_-5-_-n/a-_-HDProdPage-_-n/a-_-n/a-_-n/a&ITC=AUC-151654-23-12030

 

That looks like a screaming deal to me. Price is good, functions are good, foot pedal included for lift arc tig, and the local return policy with 3 year warranty. if it dies after 3 years toss it and buy another. Return on investment seems solid with a 3 year period.

 

If you have the room I would buy one welder for Mig and fluxcore and different welder for tig and stick.

If one gives out the other can get the job done

Dave

 

Thanks for all the great suggestions, I will look into all of them. One final update, I have added the Everlast Lightning MTS 275 to the list. It has terrific specs for duty cycle, significantly better than the Miller or ESAB for right at about $3000 with the water cooler for the TIG but they are still an unknown for quality. Currently space is an issue but that will change in the next couple of years. Louie I primarily weld steel plate and tube from 1/8-1/4 and every now and then a little bit of 1/2". I'd like to do some aluminum and SS but even when I do it won't be a lot and it will be 1/8 to 3/16 most likely (going to try welding a 15' aluminum staircase). Oscar I don't actually know if I absolutely need an AC TIG, I've never done it before so I didn't want to short myself on any features. As far as I know you need AC to TIG aluminum and I think you need it for HF start? Broccoli I looked at Bakers Gas and they have reasonable prices and they are a known quantity so I'm leaning towards buying through them, I think they also sell all the welders I'm looking at. I'll check out Welding Supplies from IOC, been to CyberWeld and they seem similar to Bakers.

 

Louie I primarily weld steel plate and tube from 1/8-1/4 and every now and then a little bit of 1/2". I'd like to do some aluminum and SS but even when I do it won't be a lot and it will be 1/8 to 3/16 most likely (going to try welding a 15' aluminum staircase). Oscar I don't actually know if I absolutely need an AC TIG, I've never done it before so I didn't want to short myself on any features.

I would focus on a welder that is good for the steel and stainless you want to do and maybe forget about the aluminum for a while, but that's just me.

As far as I know you need AC to TIG aluminum and I think you need it for HF start?

You do not need AC to have high frequency start. You can also MIG weld aluminum.

Do you know if the Primeweld MIG and stick welders are as good as the reviews on the TIG you posted?

No idea

Have you welded stainless or aluminum with your MM255?

No I really only weld mild steel 99.9% of the time (which is why I am perfectly happy with the MM255). Regardless of the brand of MIG welder, you need a different gas for aluminum MIG welding (Argon) and yet another different gas for stainless MIG welding (a tri-mix gas)

 

The Hobart would be on my short list for that type of mig which is the real workhorse of small fab, maint, etc. I only use something else on occasion cause I can and cause I got it. My ideal setup is a 140 class with 023, a bigger machine with bigger wire and a DC stick. If I got to do a little alum for service,,, which I do its spooly.

 

Here is what I really think. Veg has hit this really close for "being able to do the work" a hobby/home guy really does. I have a specialty but where it really hit the road I need tig about twice in 40 years, find a bud to dabble with that and most guys could do anythiong they can dream up with a 210 wire feed,,, really. I add a stick like the veg did but maybe even more modern for "to go" stuff, its really handy. I can understand the dreaming, the research all of that but if you wanna get a machine where the rubber really hits the road get a 210 feeder and then if you are hung up add another machine, 2 or 3 but that should be one a guy has even if he got every other one they ever invent.
My bud retired, bought a 211 and a 200 Dynasty. Says the Dyn is ok and the 5 hours he put on it mostlky a little practice and in hindsight would keep the 211 and skip the 4000$ dust collector,,, has hundred hrs on a 211.
Got another neighbor hobby bud,,, as a fabricatore an expert and hasnt been over but to weld 1 alum thing since getting a 175 20 yrs ago. He can run any machine they make. Gets by just fine at hom, with a 030 feeder.

 

Only time I need big machine is occasional contracting, very rare on my own stuff and 95% done with a 180, 4.9% more DC buzzer and .001 with a spooly. Used my tig twice in last 15 yrs, both customer repair. Once just to see if it worked.

 

Louie was an educated want it buyer. He bought a machine he wanted cause he wanted it but he know what he is doing. Different than picking the right machine for a new guy, I am all for doing if you want, if you obsessed with tig that's ok too but to get stuff done for Joe Suburb hobby farmer or car guy its not the right starter machine.
Different than a guy has his heart set on exotic motor sports etc. What it is about its the perfect diy machine and the reason they got your picture on the wall as a poster child for it the place they invent and build it and why this class a machine so extremely competitive for quality performance and even price. I can find some guys should have bought 210 over 140 but the reason no one see 210 for sale is guys got them keep them. I dont know personally anyone ever sold a 175-210.
There can be 2 or 3 other machines in the corner collecting dust and one 210 doing the work. I see a couple 3 210MP sitting around a heavy shop I was in the other day. For every big piece of steel welded in the world there is 5 other small ones, maybe more.

 

Cary gives good advice. I have always bought much more welder than I need, just because I can and I tend to go overboard with my hobbies. Heck, don't even ask to see my amateur radio (ham radio) set up. Given that the OP says he works primarily with "steel plate and tube from 1/8-1/4 and every now and then a little bit of 1/2", he could get by with any of the 200-ish amp DC multi process machines and be pretty happy I think. That machine will weld stainless with DC TIG quite easily or MIG if he gets the right gas and wire combo. He could even MIG weld the 1/8 to 3/16 aluminum he is talking about as well (probably need a spool gun though). The only thing that would push me to recommend a bigger welder like my MM255 is if he did a lot of work above 1/4 inch, especially if he does a lot of 1/2 inch stuff. Then he might need the extra juice to MIG that stuff. But he could also just stick weld it with the smaller welder and be OK.

 

Most anything will be a huge leap from a 100 and no point in buying too small. If it is used a lot it saves cost. If there is any time is money factor its a no brainer. I am a regular user, dont want to fool with changing wire size and have extra bottles. The 100 with 023 would be a keeper for sheet. I had a loaner for that and might need to buy one now. I can do near foil with it. But lately due to FREE rods and the need to stay current I been doing more stick.

 

I stopped by HTP Products today since they are relatively local and they were great. They don't have a showroom it's just an office/warehouse/service building but one of their techs spent a good 20 minutes walking through the whole place with me answering all my questions. I was really impressed with how far out of their way they went to help someone who hasn't even decided on what to buy yet and they were very upfront about what their machines would and wouldn't do. They even let me take a couple pictures which I will post here when I get home and get them off my phone. The one big takeaway from that visit was that I might be better off using a spool gun instead of an AC TIG for aluminum. I don't know if I like the European Dinse connectors they use but that's only from a replacement parts perspective but I saw how many parts they have there and it should be fine. They actually build their aluminum spool guns on site at that facility and it's a nice spool gun. It has wire speed adjustment at the gun which seems really convenient. Anyhow, I would be comfortable buying the HTP 220MTS that Oscar suggested but that Primeweld TIG machine that Louie pointed out has me thinking twice, I could just get that and a good dedicated MIG machine like the IRONMAN 240 which can be had for $1700 brand new right now. I had no idea it was going to be such a pain in the *** making this decision, I also haven't ruled out the ESAB 205ic because it has everything I'm looking for and an exceptional duty cycle. I'll be watching a ton of videos over the next couple of days but these are the three options I'm focused on right now. Thanks everyone for your input so far, I'm reading ALL of it and looking into ALL of it.

 

I'm no HTP fanboy but the few times I've ordered accessories the customer service has been really good. I wouldn't worry about dinse connector as that is pretty much the industry standard now. I weld lots of aluminum using a spool gun and the only real limitations I've found are, pretty much .080 and up for thickness. Casting repair is another issue as TIG allows you to " cook" the piece with the arc to burn out contamination. Another limitation is small parts or short welds. Reason for this is generally you will get a " cold" start and then as heat increases you up your travel speed. All in all tho the aluminum mig is a good option for most repair and fabrication applications.

 

View attachment 20220615_094900.jpg View attachment 20220615_101251.jpg View attachment 20220615_094902.jpg
As promised a couple pics from my trip to HTP today. There is another section of the building the same size as this one where they do testing, repairs and classes I believe. They really couldn't have been nicer and I would highly recommend them from a customer relations perspective.

 

So you didn't get to give it a test run? Darn it, you missed out on the fun!

That 2nd pic reminds me, I need to order more coolant.

 

He showed me some coupons from the last class they had there welding aluminum with the spool gun. He showed me the guts of the 220, the boards and how they're coated and how easy and relatively inexpensive it is to replace the screen which only cost about $300 and only takes six screws and one ribbon cable to replace. I didn't like that it only has one gas inlet though.

 

Oops, duplicate post.

 

I’m assuming the unit is meant to be a mobile unit. If so then I see no reason to have more than one gas port as normally you will only be moving one gas tank at a time when transporting the machine. I can appreciate having two different gas ports and gas valves to keep from having to swap hoses, regulators, gasses etc all the time if you are swapping between processes all the time.

 

I’m assuming the unit is meant to be a mobile unit.

I don't anticipate using this as a mobile unit, there may come a time when a friend or family member needs something welded somewhere else but my intention is to park it in my shop and use it almost entirely on my property.

 

I called Cyberweld.com last night and they have the ESAB 205ic in stock and with a $400 rebate so I can get it there for $3449 which is an excellent price at this particular time. So I'm down to either the ESAB which I really want, or the Primeweld with maybe a Millermatic 211 which would cost with cart for the Miller just under $3000 or the PrimeWeld with the Hobart Ironman 240 for $2600. I would still have to buy a bottle of Argon but Primeweld actually sells full DOT 125CF bottles of Argon shipped to your door for $369 which is a pretty damn good price. Does the Miller 211 stack up well against the Hobart IronMan 240? I watched some reviews on the 240 and it's a big heavy old school transformer mig machine which is actually fine by me but one review said Hobart has it set up to slow feed the wire when you first pull the trigger and that might be a deal breaker for me. The Miller 211 has the same duty cycle on MIG as the ESAB both are 40% at 150A/21.5V but the IronMan is running 60% at 200A/24V. The Hobart comes with a 15' gun too, the ESAB and Miller both only come with 10' guns. Why is this decision so hard to make...I can get a top tier machine with the ESAB that will work, has good service and parts availability and will last for 10-20 years or I can get one of the combo sets which is not too shabby either.

 

Does the Miller 211 stack up well against the Hobart IronMan 240?

I have used a 211 and while it's a very nice machine, it does lack one ability you might be interested in...spray transfer. The 211 is really just on the edge of being able to spray and the general consensus is that even if you figure out a way to pull it off with a gas and wire combo, it's really more than what the machine should be asked to do. For some folks that's not a big deal, but it's enough for me that I would opt for the 240 even if I didn't care about the ability to run large rolls of wire (which I do).

 

I would EASILY plunk down 4100.00 for a Multimatic 220ACDC.
Sweet machine. I ran it in stick, MIG(short arc and spray), flux cored, TIG(AC and DC)
I found it to do all processes very well!

 

Miller 211 stack up well against the Hobart IronMan 240?

Depends on what you want to do. The extra top end and duty cycle of the Hobart Ironman will let you do much more with the MIG function: you can welder thicker material, you can easily run dual shield flux core, you can run some metal core wires, etc.

one review said Hobart has it set up to slow feed the wire when you first pull the trigger and that might be a deal breaker for me

Many mig welders do this, it is called "run in" and it is a good thing. I am guessing it is not adjustable on the Ironman, but to be honest, the factory default on my Millermatic 252 (back when I had it) and on my Multimatic 255 were fine. I have never changed them.

The ESAB is not a bad choice. Its just a lot of money for what you get, in my opinion. If it were me and I was budget conscious I would with the Hobart, and use some of the savings to get the Ironman with the spool gun as part of the package. I am also not sure I would invest in a bottle. I rent my 330 Cu Ft bottle of C10 and it costs me $70/year to rent. Maine Oxy even delivers to my door (at my home). With a 330 cu ft bottle you don't have to refill as often and many times the the gas is cheaper per cubic foot with the bigger bottle. For me it is worth the $70 per year to not have to schlep the bottle down to the store for an exchange. Heck last time I changed bottles the driver even did the change on the machine for me. I didn't have to touch a thing. That might be unusual but with my back I appreciate it.

 

Many mig welders do this, it is called "run in" and it is a good thing. I am guessing it is not adjustable on the Ironman.

Gotcha, also correct it is not adjustable on the Ironman. I believe that pig is basically two knobs and a torch and the build quality of a Sherman tank.

The ESAB is not a bad choice. Its just a lot of money for what you get, in my opinion. If it were me and I was budget conscious I would with the Hobart, and use some of the savings to get the Ironman with the spool gun

I'm prepared to drop $4k so all of these options fall within my budget at this point. You would get the spool gun with the Hobart even though the Primeweld 225 is being purchased with it? As much as I would like a name machine like Miller I think the bullet proof nature of the Ironman and the large bump in amperage and duty cycle I'm going to drop the Miller from the running. So we're basically down to the Primeweld 225X/Hobart Ironman 240 combo or the Esab 205ic by itself. For reference here are the links to all the machines where I will be buying them and with the gear kit I'll be buying it with.

OPTION 1:
https://primeweld.com/products/tig-225x-ac-dc-tig-welder
https://primeweld.com/products/argon-gas-full-welding-tank-125cf
https://store.cyberweld.com/hobart-ironman-230-mig-welder-500536001.html
$3442+tax

OPTION 2:
https://primeweld.com/products/argon-gas-full-welding-tank-125cf
https://store.cyberweld.com/esab-rebel-emp-205ic-welder-0558102553.html
$3818+tax

 

Once you get up into the 250-350 amp class of MIG machines, it will change the way you look at a wire feed/MIG welder and cause you to rethink a number of things. Like, if wind is not a factor, I will choose dual shield flux core over stick for heavy plate almost every time. Same thing (and even more so maybe) with pulse MIG. These bigger machines are just capable of so much more than what you can do with a 200 amp MIG in short circuit mode.

 

One thing I can recommend if you chose the ESAB 205 is to get a tweco fusion 250 to 350 amp class 15’ gun. You’ll be happy with the extra 5’ of gun length as well as the ease of use with the consumables as well as durability. Some don’t like the threadless tips but imo they make cleaning the nozzle and swapping out tips so easy.

 

Despite my 2 cents this has turned out to be a good thread. A nice thing was the OP giving some help with budget and all. He is not unrealistic. Doesnt sound like anyone is gonna miss a meal here cause daddy got a new welder. Or 2.

 

I just got off the phone with Primeweld, I wish they had a MIG welder that interested me because I would just buy it all there. Anyhow I did buy the Argon bottle because they only have 6 left and will be out for a month after that so that's out of the way. Another wrench to throw in the mix, if I went with the Primeweld 225x and the Hobart Ironman 240 without the spoolrunner but I got the Primeweld Cut60 plasma cutter it would be roughly the same cost. I have a nice oxy acetylene setup right now so I don't exactly need the plasma cutter but in the next year I want to buy a 4'x4' CNC plasma cutting table so it would be nice to have a decent plasma cutter and this one will cut up to 3/4".

 

I have owned a Primeweld Mig 180 for several(maybe 6) months now, and it has been capable of doing most everything I've asked of it. Its been a good machine that I have used to run solid wire(steel,S/S, aluminum), gasless flux core , gas shielded flux core, Stick , mig braze, and scratch start tig. It also comes with a spool gun that looks similar to the low end Lincoln 100. It takes Lincoln/Tweco parts on the torch. This machine looks very similar to the Eastwood, and the Home depot machines, and some others on amazon. I can only speak about what I've run on this machine, and it has a nice arc(not as nice as my Lincoln 210MP) when mig welding tig welding , and stick welding. I have done many repair welds on a variety of equipment, and the machine has produced decent welds every time. I bought the 180 to keep in the garage with the 225xp because there is only a 40 amp circuit there, and I needed a portable machine for around the shop and yard. That and my Lincoln 210MP was being repaired at the time (MainPCB after 6 year frequent use) The lincoln now stays at the my factory because of its portability, and versatility. The one spec that always sticks out to me on the primeweld 180 is
DUTY CYCLE STICK ARC:
30 percent @ 180 amps
60 percent @ 120
100 percent @ 99 amps
DUTY CYCLE MIG/FLUX:
30 percent @ 180 amps
60 percent @160
100 percent @ 100 amps

Thats where I run lots of 1/8" 7018, and have never had a problem with dutycycle/overheat. It a shame they dont have a machine like this in the 240-250 amp range similar to the eastwood 250 mig.

I think that after getting the primeweld tig 225 , real question is do you need power, or finesse ? I think the Ironman 240 is a solid choice if you plan on doing heavier welding 3/8"- 1/2" materials especially heavy steel beams, and plates. On the other hand if your looking to to do light fabrication, with lots of variety from 20 ga. to 1/4"-3/8" aluminum, stainless, exhaust or body work, I think the HTP 220 mig with the pulse would be a better choice. If my Lincoln 210 MP were to be broken, and unrepairable(never had a problem with the plastic arbor, but when I bought it seemed to have less plastic than the competing miller offering), I would choose the HTP because of my need the finesse more than the power.

I don't know if anybody has actually used the Home depot machine and or had to do a return or repair . If any body has , please post your experience with it. I can say for sure that the Primeweld guys have been really good with returns, and refunds with me. They always seem to pick up the phone, and have definite answers.

Good luck with your search


PS did you check with your plasma table company if the prime weld cutter. I was looking at a Langmuir crossfire, and the Lotos plasma cutter I own is on the DOESN'T WORK list . https://www.weldingweb.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

 

I was kind of curious how the IM might spray. I dont even know anyone net has tested it, have you? I agree about the difference in the 211 and the 240. Those model numbers really aint got much to do with anything,,,, the 240 is twice the machine the 211 is. Like I might have mentioned before, if I wanted to hit the gas and go tomorrow it would be on my short list if I already didnt have a 250.
According to Dan at blue it welds really well.
It really replaced a couple machines in the lineup or really consolidated is the right word. The early 210 lineup for them was kinda lame, after the blue 210 went away the 212 and 215 never really grabbed ground and anyone knew enuf or wanted to weld spent the extra 3 or 400 up front for a 250 class which is really much better. They lower the price for a hobart anyway and get rid of thqat middle machine and cost a bit more per part maybe but we need less stock,, all the way around, gonna be reliable as a tank, can keep our long warranty, I see the logic.