My Syncrowave 250 does it also. Took it to the shop last month for a complete go through, nothing wrong. Some have said "inrush" current to charge the caps. I think my breaker may be getting weak.

 

Does it do it randomly when you turn it on/off or just if it's not done smoothly?

 

Syncrowave 250 needs 100amp circuit if I remember correctly.

 

The manual and the welder data plate shows 96amps as max but it would only pull that if you're running the machine maxed out.

 

Are you using arc fault breakers?

 

Your circuit is completely undersized for those machines you mentioned. You need at least 6 gauge conductors and a 110 amp breaker is recommended. When I first installed mine I had the 6 gauge conductors and a 50 amp breaker and it never tripped with the inrush. If the machine has PFC caps, it will draw close to 50 amps at idle

 

The amp limitations vary with the wire type, so it's not that simple of an answer.

For example, the THHN 8ga that I used is listed as up to 55 amps, and you can double the amps on a dedicated circuit for a welder, so it would be within code. The breaker is undersized, and I'm going to swap it, but it's not going to cause a dangerous situation...quite the opposite.

I can flip the power switch on an off a hundred times in a row and not trip the breaker. If I pause somewhere in the movement is the only time the breaker will trip. That seems odd...

 

Both stick and Tig need bigger breaker.
At less 50 amps for up to 200 amp.
You can use a time delay fuse. This type fuse is used for electric motors to take the high starting amperage. Which same as sticking a arc.

Dave

PS: My old shop for main used 200 amp time delay.

 

My Syncrowave is on a 60 amp breaker and has run flawlessly for 10 years.

 

My Syncrowave 250 DX used to trip a 50A breaker on 6 guage wire. No extension cord and only 12' or so of 6/3 SO cord on the welder and the machine receptacle was on a dedicated circuit less than 10' from the panel.

Increasing the breaker size solved the problem.

 

G-ManBart

All recommendation are weak - just, 'cut the Green wire' . . .

hth


Opus

 

The good news is PFC capacitors was an option for the old SyncroWave line of tranny tigs. You can order the kit and put it in or have your service center put them in. Once charged the PFC capacitors will dampen the start surge and prevent tripping your breakers. How do I know? The one and only SyncroWave I bought did not have the caps and the cost was some $1100 to put in on a $2300 welder. So I sold it and bought and went to Lincolns with caps. At the time all high end tranny tigs came standard with PFC so I had no clue. Then the inverters came out and the Lincolns went bye-bye.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFI4HRpBTkM

 

Any easy way to tell if it has PFC's?

 

https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum....com/forum/welding-discussions/24215-power-factor-correction-installed-proof-of

 

Think of the main winding as a big wire, very long. If unwound, flip the switch, only resistance limits current.
Wind it back up, repeat, now at inrush there is not yet a strong magnetic field. Inrush current is big! Instantly, magnetic field builds, magnetic impedance limits current.
Turning it on, Inrush will always exceed breaker capacity. Usually it is brief enough it won't trip.

When you turn it off, a big powerful magnetic field collapses, inducing power into the line.

As Shovelon says Capacitors will spread that surge out.

 

This is so timely, my synchrowave 250 does this as well. Essentially at my old house I had a 50 amp but the the outlet was literally one foot away from the panel. In my newer house the panel is 100' away and it pops the breaker occasionally on start up and now anytime I weld aluminum over 175 amps. I'm so done with this BS. I had Edison out to the house to see what its going to take to increase my service cable size. Good news is that apparently Edison gives you up to $3,500 credit each year for stuff like this, something I was unaware of. So 400 amp panel here I come!! Calling Square D tomorrow to get the right panel that meets Euserc requirements.

 

Save yourself the cost and aggravation and just increase the breaker size. Of course the 50 is tripping so put a 80 and see if that doesn't solve the issue. Even a new 60 may make it start doing all you need it to do I mean especially if your saying the 50 on it at the old place was enough for you. What is the actual wire size ? A new run you would need from the new service anyway. You could upgrade the run to what is there now and fix it if it is just a wire/breaker size issue also.

Before wasting a lot of money be sure of what they can actually supply to your service as they have a lot of rules they follow so you don't over load their equipment especially in a residential setting.

Have a real service planner out to go over the new feed it it it's entirely in writing before buying equipment is all I am saying because I have seen this same exact scenario play out a few times before.

Make sure the existing transformer can handle what your looking for. Are you sharing the same transformer with any other residential customers now ?

Make absolutely sure that they can deliver before spending.

You may not find a standard matter base that can deliver more than 320 amps continuous. Doubt they are going to set you up with a real 400 amp service. It would need to be done current transformer style most likely to make that happen.

Then they may come in and feed it all with 1/0 aluminum or something grossly undersized for the amperage of the service. Short run will still deliver pretty good amperage without too much voltage loss but not 400 amps. The wire size is their damper and fuse between your service and the transformer so it doesn't feel the hit as much when you throw a big load at it.

Probably looking at something like this for meter. Unless they supply the meters cans which hasn't been that way for 30 years here in Florida as prior to this they supplied most single phase residential meter cans.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milbank...kid=f192de7d9a5b14de6ac7817b01b786ed&gclid=CKHlpuipv-oCFR6XxQId534MlA&gclsrc=ds

-or-

https://www.gordonelectricsupply.co...-U2120-O-Hsp-400A-Meter-Socket/5780267?msclkid=50b90b6891681300eb06546e0a848889

 

.
starting surge current on electric motors often 400% of normal load usually amps goes down in less than 1 second and time delayed circuit breaker usually ok with it. obviously if machine rated 100 amps and on 30 amp breaker that way too small. surge takes longer if wiring or extension cord way too small too.

 

I have an Airco 250 Heliwelder that does the same thing whenever I'm on a temporary connection less than the full service the machine requires. So if I bring my welder into the factory floor and use a 50A to 70A 230VAC connection with an adapter, sometimes the breaker trips on start up. When properly wired to its 100A 230VAC service disconnect, or its new 480VAC twist lock it doesn't ever seem to do that. I got by with a 70A 230VAC breaker and service outlet for a couple of years before I ran a dedicated service. Welded fine and rarely blew the breaker, and when it did, it was either right as I threw the switch or after a few minutes welding on 1/2" aluminum. I don't think having it in a low amperage setting would make any difference, even when local and remote were set low, it still happened. I don't think I will ever bring this Heliwelder home for the garage, my whole house only has a 100 amp 240VAC service, and the transformer on the pole looks about a hundred years old. Some day I would like to get an Inverter AC/DC tig for the garage, like a Lincoln SW200 or something similar.
I think that until you have full amperage service(100 A ) for the machine you will probably continue to have "nuisance trips". Hopefully the panel isn't too far away.

Good Luck

 

Exactly. Running 250 amp transformer machines and trying to get away with something that should not be feeding it in the first place you should expect it to trip on startup and at upper amperage settings. When they call for a 100 amp feed then you give it only 50-60 amp which is only half what it should have the question is really why wouldn't it trip. Then bumping the breaker just to get it to start is not so good because then you could weld a little to far up on the amps too long and you can overload the wiring if it doesn't match the breaker. The wire size must still be there for what it can draw or in that vicinity. The code allowing a larger breaker does not mean the wire can fall way short of what it needs to feed it properly. You can create a issue for sure. If the wire size is half of what the machine requires it doesn't mean you can still double the amperage of the breaker.

 

And I'll remind that a 90 degree wire connected to 75 degree terminals is rated at 75 degree limits, not 90.

 

Each new issue of code uses language about "if necessary"
I'm not a fan of starting with a big breaker. I take a cautious approach & begin with a 60 on #6. Usually if that won't hold bumping to 80 is plenty.

 

That certainly seems like the smart approach.