[123weld]

Dave, think of compression press or front coil springs compressor theory. run beefiest rect bar, across top of arbors tang extending out both sides. (in place of drift). weld/tap, some good sized all thread onto couple short pieces of rect tube, and slide them over bar, w/ all thread hanging alongside quill. burn a hole in thick scrap plate sized to support spindles bott end, but allow arbor to pass through., and 2 holes for allthreads then tighen it down w/ nuts compressing it, while maybe tap on arbor to give it some shock

 

[Welder Dave]

That's similar to what I was thinking except doesn't require welding on the arbor. It could be something to try as a 2nd option if welding alone on the arbor doesn't loosen it. I'll see how I feel and might try messing with it tomorrow.

 

[idacal]

probably should start figuring a way to drill it out, clamp a bit in a vise, and start drilling through it, with that tang still being there it probably twisted and gauled and your going to have to relieve the pressure, drill it in steps, one all the way through, then measure your new one and keep drilling it larger sizes out until it releases thats basically the only thing left if heat did not do it its too small an an area to get decent tonnage in there

 

[Welder Dave]

Hoping the 10,000 deg. arc from welding will quickly expand and retract it. The tang is only turned very slightly when looking in the slot for the drift.

 

[farmersammm]

I would hazard a guess that the spindle bearing is an off the shelf item. Probably not very expensive if you just order it using the part number embossed on it. They only are expensive on a parts list. Can probably get one from any bearing house.......maybe even an auto parts store.

I doubt if it's a precision bearing. Drill presses generally have very loose bearings.......not in the extreme tolerance class.

So, if you bugger it up, it might not be the disaster you think it might be.

 

[52 Ford]

I would hazard a guess that the spindle bearing is an off the shelf item. Probably not very expensive if you just order it using the part number embossed on it. They only are expensive on a parts list. Can probably get one from any bearing house.......maybe even an auto parts store.

I doubt if it's a precision bearing. Drill presses generally have very loose bearings.......not in the extreme tolerance class.

So, if you bugger it up, it might not be the disaster you think it might be.

Heck, even if it DOES have precision bearings, chances are he can get replacements for relatively cheap. Depending on the bearing arrangement and the design of the spindle, I'm going to guess sub $50 for a pair of name brand bearings.

Also important to note that they do not have to be the same kind that came out.

Again, depending on spindle design (namely how the bearings are preloaded), replacing something like a pair of ball bearings with opposed angular contact bearings (Google it) or tapered roller bearings could work better.

Also make sure NOT to pack the bearings. You want maybe a 40% fill? You can look it up. Too much and you get excess heat build up. They are like wheel bearings (even if you're using taper roller bearings)

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[smithdoor]

I am suprised the drill chuck not off.

I would had a low tapper drill drift just for the one time use out of O1 tool steel.

Dave

Heck, even if it DOES have precision bearings, chances are he can get replacements for relatively cheap. Depending on the bearing arrangement and the design of the spindle, I'm going to guess sub $50 for a pair of name brand bearings.

Also important to note that they do not have to be the same kind that came out.

Again, depending on spindle design (namely how the bearings are preloaded), replacing something like a pair of ball bearings with opposed angular contact bearings (Google it) or tapered roller bearings could work better.

Also make sure NOT to pack the bearings. You want maybe a 40% fill? You can look it up. Too much and you get excess heat build up. They are like wheel bearings (even if you're using taper roller bearings)

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[farmersammm]

Heck, even if it DOES have precision bearings, chances are he can get replacements for relatively cheap. Depending on the bearing arrangement and the design of the spindle, I'm going to guess sub $50 for a pair of name brand bearings.

Also important to note that they do not have to be the same kind that came out.

Again, depending on spindle design (namely how the bearings are preloaded), replacing something like a pair of ball bearings with opposed angular contact bearings (Google it) or tapered roller bearings could work better.

Also make sure NOT to pack the bearings. You want maybe a 40% fill? You can look it up. Too much and you get excess heat build up. They are like wheel bearings (even if you're using taper roller bearings)

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It's been a while since I rebuilt the headstock on my lathe, but the difference between a P0, and a P5, bearing is phenomenal in price. A P0 bearing is a standard bearing like used in a car, and would run maybe $50, or less. Get into tighter radial runout tolerances, and the price goes to the moon. https://www.sp-spareparts.com/en/p/30212-p5-timken opposed to a P0 https://www.sp-spareparts.com/en/p/30212-skf?_q=30212

I'm guessing he probably has P0 bearings in that spindle.

 

[farmersammm]

looked back over the pics from the rebuild, and the headstock took 30210 P5 bearings. I believe I gave about $150 apiece for them. The outfit I bought the lathe from covered the cost.

You can find cheaper so called "P5's" on Ebay, or other sites, but I wouldn't trust them. I bought from a trusted supplier. And, the bearings did indeed have the correct runout when preloaded.

View attachment lathe setup49.JPG

 

[farmersammm]

I found more pics. The spindle took 2 different sizes. These are the new bearings, and the grade8 threaded rod to make the installation tool.

View attachment lathe setup68.JPG

Apologies to Dave for messing up the thread.

 

[52 Ford]

I can't explain precision spindle bearings better than Robin Renzetti (ROBRENZ on YouTube). https://youtu.be/grUdsTTRGl4

Long format video, but you get to look over the shoulder of someone who really knows their stuff.

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[123weld]

That's similar to what I was thinking except doesn't require welding on the arbor. It could be something to try as a 2nd option if welding alone on the arbor doesn't loosen it. I'll see how I feel and might try messing with it tomorrow.

if can get it to take a weld, id support spindle, and slide hammer on it, while pressing from top, id think something has got to give. depends on how much scrap/material u got in ur junk pile to make it happen w/o spending alot time/money. i make slide hammers outa my old barbell sets, heel bar, etc. i usually weld bar directly on, and slam the weights. ive used of weights and a bench bar to remove booms off of trenchers. but u know whats best, and what u have to work w/, u'll get it one way or another. after all u been through lately, i know a arbor couldnt begin to stop u ,

 

[Welder Dave]

I tried welding a scrap piece of 1/2" flat bar on the arbor with a 3/32" 7018. I got a good 1/2" weld on one side and a little less on the other side. I also cut a 1/4" plate with a hole to fit around the quill. Got lucky as I could tap it on the quill and it stayed there. It allowed for a large cold chisel to fit between the 2 plates. Got some pretty good whacks in but the weld let go from the arbor. No harm no foul. I don't think I got it hot enough with the welding. I'm going to try welding some flat bar on edge to the bottom of the broken arbor with some high strength specialty rods, I'll be able to put more weld on and get more heat into the arbor. I could set up a slide hammer deal or bolts to put lots of pressure on the arbor. It was a bit difficult to weld in a 3/16" gap between the 2 plates. Thankfully gravity was on my side so I didn't weld to the quill. I was hoping it might be a quick fix. The damn arbor is really stuck.

 

[12V71]

I tried welding a scrap piece of 1/2" flat bar on the arbor with a 3/32" 7018. I got a good 1/2" weld on one side and a little less on the other side. I also cut a 1/4" plate with a hole to fit around the quill. Got lucky as I could tap it on the quill and it stayed there. It allowed for a large cold chisel to fit between the 2 plates. Got some pretty good whacks in but the weld let go from the arbor. No harm no foul. I don't think I got it hot enough with the welding. I'm going to try welding some flat bar on edge to the bottom of the broken arbor with some high strength specialty rods, I'll be able to put more weld on and get more heat into the arbor. I could set up a slide hammer deal or bolts to put lots of pressure on the arbor. It was a bit difficult to weld in a 3/16" gap between the 2 plates. Thankfully gravity was on my side so I didn't weld to the quill. I was hoping it might be a quick fix. The damn arbor is really stuck.

That arbor does not have enough surface area to get enough weld on it no matter what "super rod" you use to take that kind of pull or impact. You gotta go at it from the top. The drift you showed is way too steep. Reach into the slot with a narrow die grinder burr and take the sharp edge off one side of the arbor tang so the drift doesn't dig in. Get a scrap of AR plate and make a really shallow wedge and beat it. BTDT, REALLY SHALLOW... the arbor only needs to "pop".

 

[Welder Dave]

The drift I made is very close to the size of one you would buy but I can make an even shallower one. The drift shown in the 1st link I posted of a similar drill press is way too steep. Just thought of something I could try. Make a shallower and shorter drift that I could put a U-bolt around the spindle pulling the drift in. I can get a narrow die grinder burr to put a slight slope on the tang so the drift doesn't dig in. I could smack it to to hopefully shock the arbor out. I think it's going to need some heat as well. The broken arbor is about 3/4" dia. so there is a fair amount of meat I could weld to on the bottom. What I tried was very hard to get the rod in the gap. If I took flat bar on edge or welded some all thread or a bolt all around would be a lot easier to weld and I could get a lot more weld on it. With force on the drift and maybe a smack hopefully it would pop at just the right temp. when cooling. If that doesn't work it may have to be machined out. I don't know if had Loctite put on it or what was done with it. I did read that MT3 tapers are known for sticking and being hard to remove.

 

[Oldiron2]

The broken arbor is about 3/4" dia. so there is a fair amount of meat I could weld to on the bottom.

Regarding the bar you tried to weld to the arbor, what if you bore a hole slightly smaller below and perhaps tapered on top (to help center it on the arbor), and make a good, hot plug weld that fills the hole. Maybe would need a different, heavier bar. Besides another bar through the drift hole, is there anything that could be pushed against on top, if you ran heavy threaded rods up both sides and used nuts for expansion between the two?

I assume the press is not pulled apart yet; have you determined the difficulty in doing so, and rejected it?

If you decide to machine the arbor out and find it to be hard, might that justify building an EDM machine for the shop?

 

[Welder Dave]

I thought about a big plug weld on the bottom. I'm a little reluctant to take it apart incase something breaks. I know that parts are no longer available for it. I think being on the drill press is the best way to hold everything to try and get the arbor out. I could make some type of bolt system to help push the arbor out as well.

 

[duramax-rob]

just a thought. why don't you chuck up a bolt going thru a chain attached to a come-a-log and put pressure on pulling out while pushing out?

 

[smithdoor]

Dupont makes a great product it opens everything 👏.
They use for opening Safe too.

Dave

I thought about a big plug weld on the bottom. I'm a little reluctant to take it apart incase something breaks. I know that parts are no longer available for it. I think being on the drill press is the best way to hold everything to try and get the arbor out. I could make some type of bolt system to help push the arbor out as well.

 

[Welder Dave]

just a thought. why don't you chuck up a bolt going thru a chain attached to a come-a-log and put pressure on pulling out while pushing out?

I could try welding a bolt on the arbor and using a come-a-long attached to the base. I wouldn't want to damage the base though.