Is it really the gas? I heard that people can spray arc with c25

Maybe I should just give up and stick weld it all.

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Maybe I should just give up and stick weld it all.

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Did you verify that your set up electrode positive.

 

Yes I am

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What’s the pink blob that looks like plastic at the end of the weld. Might be the problem.

 

Still glowing red when I took the picture

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Yes,
C-25 takes too many volts to get into spray with C-25.. Get some 98/2 (Lowest volt spray) or some 90/10 Argon/C02

 

Some people will argue the point but the generally accepted wisdom is you need more than 80% argon to spray. I use 90/10 with no issues.

 

I'm definitely one that will argue that spray transfer with c25 is possible, but it take a lot of arc energy, This is 800 IPM on .035 at 39 volts, makes a nice deep penetrating weld, but most machines wont output 39 volts.



but it is much easier to get a nice spray arc with less reactive gas, this is 29.5 volts with 600 IPM of .035 running 5% co2, 2% o2 gas.

 

And I guess 100% argon won't work? I don't want to have to get another whole tank just for this job,

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Everything I have ever seen or heard says that 100% argon will not work for spray arc and that you generally need 82% or higher argon concentration with the balance of CO2 for good results. Like Louie, I'm using 90/10 argon CO2 for pulsed spay spray with the same model of Multimatic 255 he has. I'm still in the learning stages of mastering spray arc on mild steel and need more time under the hood before claiming any level of expertise, though. Neither of the gasses you have on hand fall in the recommended ranges.

90/10 works well for short circuit with the MM255 so when my 300 cf bottle of 75/25 and my smaller bottle of CO2 are empty I think I'll stick with either 90/10 or 85/15 for all mild steel work.


Lance

 

100% argon will work for Aluminum.. Pick up some .045/,052 Dual-shield wire and run it with 75/25 gas

 

I could try the dual shield

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Mix the Argon and the C25 to get a 92/8 mix.

You can use something as simple as a T or Y.

Here is a chart I made to generate 92/8 mix.

 

Perhaps slag pocket from the 6010 percolating through, since you say it is random. Also, could your wire be rusting? I doubt it is gas if it works then does not work???

 

Wrong Gas Mix. Google a bit before you waste all your gas.

 

Phil, first off if you are determined to spray arc it, do yourself a favor and step up to 045 wire, and the correct gas. 045 wire will run better on that thickness of plate. Second, how critical are these welds? Dual shield will work but I am wondering if you can get by with something like a Fabshield 21B self shielded flux core. You could run the 045 or 1/16th wire, forget the gas and lay down 3 lbs of wire an hour at about 200 amps. It should be plenty strong enough.

 

Well they're not getting xrayed or anything but they are supporting some heavy weight, that self shielded wire sounds good to me, I just want to get it done, I know could make it come out beautiful with 7018, but that'll take me forever.

I actually do have a Benard mig torch with the centerfire consumables, I just have to see if that liner can take a 1/16th wire, I know it'll do 045


Thanks guys

maybe I should just use 90/10 in the future for when I may need to spray arc again.

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I's use Dual shield with your C-25 gas or straight CO2. Fabshield 21B isn't nearly as strong or have as much penetration and has a lot more smoke. If you had lots to do and it's in the flat position get some self-shielded E70-T4. It has the highest deposition rates. I used some 3/32" at around 400 amps and went through a 50lb. coil in 2 1/2 hours. Just make sure you have a good ground so you don't get arc blow. Weld looks almost like sub -arc.

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/ass...nsumable_Flux-CoredWires-Self-Shielded-Innershield-InnershieldNS-3M/c320002.pdf

 

not sure how powerful your machine is but mine sprays fine with 85/15 and can still short circuit on the same bottle. metal core is good for putting down alot of material.
i see your working outside. likely the wind may be blowing away your gas. use self shield fluxcore or wait until the wind is very low

 

Dual shield in 1/16 is fast and clean, flux core in 5/64 like Lincoln NR 311 or even 233 world make short work of that. Make sure you not having problems from going over the 6010 like not floating out contaminated from the root pass. It looks like too much voltage add wire speed or subtract voltage to get right at the transition point between spray ang globular transfer and dial in from there looking to work in the lower range of the voltage/wire-feed-speed at first. Mixing the gas could work out but trying to change too many things at once can be confusing. You know how the roots went in so if they were clean 7018 does a great job running over 6010 roots but mig wire might not be as forgiving.

 

I think it's nothing to do with the gas, and everything to do with the 6010 root pass. MIG doesn't allow the impurities and hydrogen to escape easily. MIG likes clean, high quality metal. Even a bit of trapped slag would do what you see there.

 

That may be the problem, while I was having difficulty with welds that were a mig root, the 6010 root welds were way worse

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If you look at my old posts you'll see that my experience with Dual Shield is a love/hate relationship. Right now, I'm in love again. I'm running a .045" wire made for 75% gas.
In the past I've had problems ranging from porosity, wormholes, bird nesting. Right now, it's under control.

 

Phil, what machine are you using to weld this? Can we get more pictures of what it is your welding?

 

Esab mm280, it's a great welder, lots of available power.

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First try with dual shield, it's Lincoln outer shield, 71 elite looks great, should have success with this

Running 75/25 at about 30sch

I'm brushing the steel till it shines, and nothing think i may have wasted my money here.

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Damn.

Me thinks You got a bad bottle of gas

 

Well this wire sucks, it sucks so bad, there's these weird channels in the finished bead, that and just outright terrible porosity, I'm not much of a welder I realize now, I'm good at stick welding but I can't mig weld for crap..

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sounds like worm tracks. I got porosity and worm tracks while using duel shield. It sucks and as said welding over it just exacerbates the problem. I was having problems welding T joints. One side would weld fine but the other side would draw out the crud left under the T joint. No real way to clean it out either. It was super frustrating.

Don’t be so hard on your self. Sounds like you are looking to put down as much metal as possible as fast as possible. Will you have to worry about heat warping or are you bouncing around to reduce warping. Starts and stops can potentially be problematic areas.

 

The other thing to consider is you shouldn't be welding outdoors or in a strong breeze, it blows away the gas. If you are outdoors, try to erect a wind block. Also the lincoln wires need 40-50 CFH of gas flow.

 

Do you have a Mig nozzle flow meter to check your gas flow?

View attachment 250A56C9-EF0B-4696-A1B3-C6515F78AB0E.jpg

 

I think i may have found the problem, years ago I bought a little hand held flowmeter, and I tested it on the mig torch and I was only getting about 6sch

I then looked at the oring in the euro torch connection, and realized it was mostly gone
Notice the worn out o-ring, I wiggled the torch connection and I'd see the gas flow go up and down, I put a new oring in and now I'm getting about 20sch so I'll test it out now ans see what happens.

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Ha! Imagine that . Hope that’s all the problem was. It did look exactly like no gas coverage.

One O ring is almost gone while the one further to the back looks dry rotted and cracked. I’d replace both while you are at it but definitely the front one missing most of the O ring.

 

So it seems to do better but I'm still having random issues

Sometimes it looks beautiful, sometimes tons of porosity

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So it seems to do better but I'm still having random issues

Sometimes it looks beautiful, sometimes tons of porosity


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Those are called worm tracks. These are often caused by excess voltage or an incorrect contact tip to work distance. You need about 3/4 of an inch of contact tip to work distance (longer than standard hardwire MIG). if you are correct on that parameter, then try reducing the voltage a bit.

 

Also this is all indoors

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