You may have to look into a mandril bender. Uses a support mandril inside the pipe to keep it round while it is bent. then it is pulled out. Some high end muffler shops use them.

 

Yeah, I realize they are better. But the fact that this is a recent quality issue with the pipe is why I ask. I have bent them succesfully with my modified bender for many years. I have the same issue with a hydraulic pipe "squisher" I built for the angle braces on the table frames. The inferior pipes will split, where the better quality ons squash fine.

 

check out griffin supply in hammond ind they sell allied tube and conduit in the midwest. They have all sizes in stock. Its what we use in the dairy equipment business, and i believe its still american made. they have a web site

 

Where you located ? Try a pipe plumbing supplier and get made in USA pipe. Depending on supplier you may be able to get ''plain end'' no threads.
That's cool. Now you only have to add wood and instant table.

 

I am in N Ca, I didn't know you could get "made in USA" pipe any more. Where I normally get it, it is plain end, in 21 or 24' lengths. I'll check into if they can get American pipe. They know I am looking for better quality steel. I just bought sheets of 10 gauge for boat pontoons that had mill scale pits so deep, they went all the way through!

 

I have my wood custom milled cedar, full 3 X 12 for us big Americans. These go in the recreation area where my shop is. Although I have built them for local churches and other agencies, they are not cheap, but you could park a backhoe on top of them. My material cost is just over $300 (not bent,cut or punched), so they aren't for your average homeowner. If some one insists on uying one, they go between $650 and $700. Other commercial tables of that size, with 2 X 10 lumber go for more + shipping. That usually stops homeowners from looking at them. I would pay more for American steel if it is available. I have'nt seen any around here for quite a while.

 

If my steel supplier to me to right that on my receipts, my answer would be then ill find a new supplier....

 

American pipe is available, it will cost about 2 to 2.5 times what you are paying for the import pipe. You might try using seamless pipe, it might take the crushing a little better.

 

I would pay more for US pipe. I never heard of seamless sch40 pipe, only tubing. I just know I've bent it for years with no distortion, but the last two years quality in some of the countries steel has gone way downhill. As most of you know, the cheap benders only bend pipe, not conduit or tube. I do have access to better benders, but I use the cheap bender on these just because it has always worked and my other tooling is freed up. I might have to upgrade the bender to compensate for the crappy steel used in the pipe.

 

Don't pay more for US pipe unless it fits your purpose. All US made pipe I use is CREW (cold rolled, electric welded) or DOM (drawn over madrel) and sometimes called seamless even though it's not. The wall thickness is just way more uniform than regular welded pipe. DOM pipe is mostly found in high pressure steam applications, and CREW in other high pressure/load bearing applications. I just posted a reminder in another thread not too long ago that I'm going to post up here too, that "pipe" and "tube" are defined by size dimensions, not application or manufacture process.

I've never seen or sought anything but HREW (hot rolled, electric welded) in galvanized though. Fortunately, that works out good for you since HREW is the cheapest and softest! Which brings me to your bender. I'm NOT going to talk smack about it, I have and use one myself. After using Jet and OneShot push-through benders owned by the shops I've worked in on everything from T6061 to 4140 I have complete confidence in the design for it's intended purpose. After looking at the HF crushomatic for a long time for myself I bit the bullet and quickly realized the flaw is in the dies. They're just too rough and inconsistent to provided quality results continuously. It's also why some guys can make a perfect bend in one size but not the next size up or down, and why sometimes you get a better bend using the wrong die.

Now that I'm done rambling like the old fart I'm not, the long answer to your question is I'd look to see if you can find some of your old material that bent fine and see if it still does. The HF dies are weak cast pot metal, vs. the forged and machined dies from Jet and OneShot, I'd expect some distortion over time that could be causing the issue.

The short answer to your direct question is Mexican HREW galvi. It's been the most consistent of the cheap pipe I've used.

 

http://www.tiogapipe.com/carbon.html
http://www.wosupply.com/index.php/contact-locations

These are both suppliers that I have used in the past for seamless pipe

 

Material $300.00 ???? How long are the pieces ?? Is that 1/4'' x 2'' flat stock ?

 

3/8"x 2 1/2" flat, I used angle in the past designs, but the layout and welding was tougher with the radius. It was slightly stronger, but had a small cut hazard, plus extrs welding time. Not quite $300. About $115 of steel, $120 of wood (3 X 12 X 8'), and bolts and finish. The tables are bigger than any other commercial table, and I'm not trying to sell them. I build them to keep my recreation area employees employed year round so I have experienced people in the summer. We also make all our own BBQ's, marinas, rental 2 story patio boats, cabins etc. Welding is not my main job, although I have been doing it for 35 years. I run a large recreation area in Ca. I know I can buy similar commercial tables for $700-$800, but this way everyone stays employed. In the summer we run over 60 employees, including some seasonal. My passion is the shop and designing the projects to keep them busy and employed in this economy. I'll post the finished table when I get time. We also drill a hole in the center for commercial umbrellas.

 

Hats off to you, Bart for doing your best to keep your people EMPLOYED and on the payroll. Not many can do that in a seasonal (or regular, for that matter) business. I'm sure they all appreciate it more than you realize. :drinkup:

 

Redone: As far as import pipe goes, you must consider the hardness and use. We had some sent out by mistake to the job. The material was so hard we could not get a decent thread on it. Neighbor brought over some import pipe from big box store that was the opposite. The stuff
almost collapsed in the machine as I tried to thread it.
I guess it depends where it is from and your application. I never did a price check difference but we only use MADE IN THE USA. In our industry it is not worth taking a chance.

 

As far as the cheap bender goes, I have bought several because of the weak dies, modified them to air/ hydraulic pumps. I have made literally thousands of sucessful bends and have made many shop made adapters for it. So again I am pretty sure it's a pipe quality issue. I do have to say the Jet and greenlee style has me thinking anyway. The reason I have so many benders is for the dies, I have broken several due to the cheap castings. I will post soon some of the adapters I made. One of a "pipe squasher" for welding pipe joints, one is a square tube bender, and I have also used it for channel and heavy flat. I have to figure out how to post multiple pics on a post.
Thanks for the encouragement on employees, I think it pay's off. Running a rec area in California becomes a zoo in the summertime, shop time is almost a vacation for us!

 

Other notes on the cheap bender. It has always worked best on 2" sch 40, probably because the roller dies are machined for it. Smaller pipe is always less accurate, 1/2" almost always has to be heated. I get much better bends out of the smaller 12 ton than the bigger 16 ton, which will not do "1 shot 90 bend" on 2 1/2 and 3" pipe.

 

Here is another batch of good bends, most of this was Thailand pipe, with a couple sticks from Korea. Also finished tables. I only had 1 bad stick of pipe in that batch and it was unmarked,duller (almost hot dipped) finish, and had a heavier seam in it. Even though the Thai pipe looks good, it is no where near the consistancy I was getting even two years ago.

 

The tables look great. Can you show the cross support?

I know my greenlee does 2" rigid nice and clean. But I don't bend enough to notice much. What is the ASTM marking on the pipe? Normally A53 is suitable for bending. I believe the ASTM specifies a 90 degree bend test at 12x diameter mandrel diameter. What is your diameter? A53 is available in several grades a few grades are suitable for 8x diameter close coiling (CW, ERW). Is it possible your getting various grades? Pipe without markings is always suspect. Where are you placing the weld in your bend?

If your within the 12x diameter bend diameter and the marked pipe is failing... the manufacturer should stand behind it.

 

I believe the best pipe this time was A53A. The cheapo harbor freight benders do a 7" inside radius (8 1/4" center radius) on 2" sch 40 (2 3/8"OD) pipe. Although I have bent sch 80 easily with it as well. I have never speced a grade except for 2" sch 40 galv plain end. I think the unmarked one may have either been some sort of conduit or fence pipe, even though it all came in the same order. My supplier knows some countries are better than others, but are in the same boat. Neither of us remembers which supplier is most consistant.
The cross braces are 1" sch 40, squashed on both ends (see my next thread on pipe squasher attachement)
With this design I can make either std 8' table or go 14' for group areas using 3 sets of legs.

 

When you ask "where are you placing your weld" I assume you mean the pipe seam? I do remember one year we decided one location for the seam was better than the other for a clean bend, but I can't remember what was best.

 

The weld placement shouldn't really matter but the weld can sometimes interfere with the bend shrink or stretch depending on the hardness. Most often the weld seam on round tubing and pipe is located on the center line radius which is the neutral axis of the bend. Being on the neutral axis will minimize the shrink and stretch of the weld. Also, being consistent will ensure consistency between parts.

Thanks for the photo. It's very clear from this angle. From the other photo it looked much fancier than a length of angle iron.

 

I used angle on a 100 or so table years ago.although it was slightly stronger, I switched because of my design. The inside rarius made it tough to weld without beveling pipe, and it was a slight hazard for customers thighs, although I had no complaints. The 3/8" is overkill, but the American public can be ruthless on campsites, these get carved up with graffiti withen the first week. And that is with half a dozen security employees. I've even seen campers drive up on my BBQ's to fix their cars. There are several MFG's of similar commercial tables, using 2x10 tops and seats. Mine are 3 x12 and a little taller to get in and out, I have made some out of 4 x 12 also. The extra weight keeps them from tipping when one side is fully loaded. It also keeps them from being stolen easily. I drill a 1 3/8" hole in the center for umbrellas.

 

@ REDONE, I actually polished my dies on the cheapo bender when I first bought it back in the 90's.I think it helped. I have bent miles of pipe, and know it won't bend tubing, in fact I have bought several at garage sales from ignorant people that tried to bend muffler pipe. Here is another couple pics of bent pipe projects done with the harbor freight design. I am convinced it is a material problem, thanks for the tips on Mexian pipe and from the other tip on ASME markings from the other member.
This is one of five comercial playground and swing set structures i have built with it. Thanks for all the tips everyone, I might be looking for a greenlee or Jet bender to compensate for the cheaper pipe. I will have to adjust all my bend notes if I do that though.

 

I went back to the supplier today and showed him the good and bad bends. We went out to the shop and started inspecting pipe with together. Apparrently they have been ordering a lot of Sch 40 Galv plain end pipe that is not A53A for solar panel supports. Solar panel installers in Ca don't care about the A53 pressure test. I also noticed it is a little bigger diameter ( should be 2.375, the non spec pipe is 2.415) so it is much tighter in the die and has a much bigger interior seam. I also noticed the shiney sch 40 bends better than the rough, dull stuff. Maybe it is electro galv instead of hot dipped. The best luck I had was with Thailand pipe. I can order American pipe, about .10 cents a lb more ($8 a stick). It might be worth it, I thought it would be more.

 

That's really interesting. A36 (I believe, but could be mistaken) is what gives me the best bends, but it's also what I get cheap from my local supplier and also what I've ground my dies too. I may be misunderstanding your terms for the texture of the pipe, especially since it's been galvanized, but the rough texture I'm used to seeing is from hot rolling the metal into a tube shape, while the smooth texture is more common to the cold rolling process. My phone camera sucks but I've got some black pipe in the shop to show the differences. I'll try to get some pics that don't completely suck and if so, post 'em up. Since it's not galvanized it may be completely arbitrary though.

 

I'm talking about the galvinized finish, which I would think is done after the pipe is Mfg. It looks like the Thai pipe is electro galv, while others are hot dippid leaving a duller, silver. Is A36 a Sch 40 grade? Most of the stuff I was having problems with had no markings at all, country or type.

 

Also remeber I'm talking only about pipe,not tube, which is the only thing the cheap HF benders are barely acceptable at bending. I have better benders in my shop, but the tables have all been jigged for the cheaper HF design. I might have to go to the better benders if the inferior pipe continues. (this is the second year i received a lousy load) I have not had any problems in the prior years, I think quality standards are going down. Plumbers tell me they notice the same thing when threading diferent brands of pipe, some is hard, some soft, and some just crumbles. Now I sound like Goldylocks.