It is hard to tell from the picture how it comes off. I would think it would have a set screw that would keep it from loosening up from use or it is real tight. It could also be that you take the tie bolts loose and the head end of the piston is held on with a nut to get the rod out.

 

REPLY: I will double check for set screws. I thought about removing the rod but was hoping I did not have to.

Can't answer for that exact application but I've seen similar where they are threaded into the "T" joint. It will take a bench vise and heat to get it apart but once it breaks free, will spin out easily. Use a strap wrench on the other end of the cylinder rod with the "T" anchored into a bench vise and heat it dull red. Then apply torque to the other end of the rod until it spins out. As mentioned, look for set screws but I don't think I've ever seen one myself, (which means nothing).

REPLY: ok thanks. As mentioned above I will check again for set screw. This is on a tractor front end loader, obviously an old one. The original cylinders wore out and PO had these JD cylinders as spare. The rod eyes would not fit into the factory connections (1 1/2" wide) so they welded (not very well) a couple of straps on each side to accommodate the JD rod eyes. So either the rod eyes need to be machined to fit original factory connection points or new eyes installed. Thanks for your suggestion, I will take one off and see if a little heat and a strap will do the trick. Appreciate both replies

 

Can't answer for that exact application but I've seen similar where they are threaded into the "T" joint. It will take a bench vise and heat to get it apart but once it breaks free, will spin out easily. Use a strap wrench on the other end of the cylinder rod with the "T" anchored into a bench vise and heat it dull red. Then apply torque to the other end of the rod until it spins out. As mentioned, look for set screws but I don't think I've ever seen one myself, (which means nothing).

 

Realize you stand a good chance of cooking the seals out of the cylinder packings with heat. This is why you want the cylinder extended as far as possible when heating the fitting to give the rod a chance to act as a heat sink and not damage the packings. A helper spraying water on the rod a few inches down from your heating point is a good idea too.

 

Threaded is the most likely but it might of been cast on and not be removable.

Why are you needed to remove it?

 

Irish, see post 4b above, on my tablet and too much to retype. Thanks

 

Slob, good points. Will remember. Going to check for rod eyes tomorrow. If threaded I may have to install a coupler, only have approx 1 1/2 clearance to original connection. Thanks

 

geezer

Hydraulic Tee's don't have set screws - sets are not up to the task,
nor - is it cast on chrome?

Best guess - it is threaded - and you need a Parmelee Wrench.

http://www.gibbtools.com/block.php?block_id=4398
http://www.google.com/search?q=parm...0.27079.10.10.0.0.0.0.187.715.9j1.10.0....0...1ac.1.34.img..2.8.596.K2Rj0n2rNrk

They are special purpose - and expensive unless you have repetitive
dedicated tasks.

Any: Dealer/Farm/Machine/Weld enterprise in the day, may have had
several sizes because threaded ends [then] was an industrial/trade
standard.

In leu of a Parmelee - I'd space and bore two slabs of brass to use
as 'soft jaws' in a 'big-butt' vise - and give it a twist.

Best wishes . . . and keep in touch . . .


Opus

 

geezer

Hydraulic Tee's don't have set screws - sets are not up to the task,
nor - is it cast on chrome?

Opus

The setscrew wouldn't be to hold the rod end on but rather to keep it from unthreading from a threaded rod.

I've seen some where the rod end was a part of the rod and didn't come apart. Not often but they are out there.

 

Is this the set screw circled in yellow? Also, it looks like a transition in size where the yellow arrows are from here.

 

Was wondering if anyone knows how this rod end comes off. It appears it is threaded and the rod needs to be removed. Suppose to be a JD, 8223-C is stamped on the the rod end but I cannot find anything about it. Just thought I would ask, thanks View attachment 1171141

why do you need to take the "T" end off?

 

I think hes trying to get the chromed rod out. Probly to replace seals :dizzy: I guess.

 

Not particularly impressed with the weld on the mount. Upper left.

Somebody got to throw in something about welding here.

 

On some of these older type of cylinders, if you can't easily take the connection end off the rod, it may be necessary to disassemble the barrel. Then pull out the piston and remove the not or bolt holding it to the rod. Then new seals can be slid along the rod to get them to the other end of the barrel assembly. The screw in question above is a bleeder screw, to bleed off air when refilling the cylinder with fluid. Taking it to a shop that specializes in hydraulic cylinders would not be a bad idea. They can check out the whole cylinder for you including seals, piston rings and bore condition and do needed repairs to get the cylinder back to good condition. Take both of them in at the same time, so they will both be in the same shape when you put them on the loader and start using them.

 

Nearly all cylinders have to be taken apart to replace the rod seal. 99% will need the piston taken off anyway and there's no other way to replace the piston seals.

What most people call a rod seal is really just the wiper. It's purpose is to keep dirt and water out of the gland and off the seal which is inside the bore of the gland. The wiper is the only thing you can see without taking the cylinder apart.

 

If you have a jd dealer around they may be able to get you a parts list which might show how it was assembled.the number that you found should be a casting # they may or may not be able to look it up.
If it is threaded and you plan on machining a new end you could cut the t end with a Zip disk hit with a hammer and chisel to split it off. The easiest way is to weld up the mounts.
Good luck

 

Yeah I am familiar with hydraulic cylinders, but maybe not so much with these little bitty ones. The ones I have to deal with have a 16" piston and a 6" rod on them, with a 12' stroke. So there may be slight differences in how they are designed and manufactured. I can replace the rod packing and wipers with out complete disassembly of the cylinder. Just have to make angled cuts to the packing rings to fit the around the rods and offset the cuts to get them to seal and not have to disconnect the rod from the load.

 

I've worked on some that use packing like that. But that's rare in small cylinders. Normally they use some form of U-seal though cheap farm cylinders can simply have a o-ring.

Yep, if you take those into a shop that works on them a lot, I think they would just dismantle the tie rods on the cylinders and leave your "t"'s alone. If they are just too wide to fit in the original location, I'd spend some quality time on the sides with a grinder, but be aware that other clearance issues may show up if that "t" is closer to the top of the cylinder than the original ones were. The bigger issue is going to be the condition of the chromed rods... any pitting, rust, gouges or bends is pretty much going to send you shopping for new cylinders anyway. If you do go shopping for brand X cylinders, pay very close attention to the original specs for the application... ie, extended length, contracted length, port locations, port sizes, pin sizes, etc. Just finding 2 18" cylinders can leave you with some wide variations that will not work in all circumstances.

From looking at the rod that's exposed I do wonder about the condition of the rest. The truth is the price that was quoted earlier is cheap. Just a seal kit from John Deere runs over $100 normally.

One thing I don't see in the list of things to look for above is the size of the rod. Loaders often use over sized rods to keep up the column strength. Many long cylinders have a lower column strength at full extension than actual pushing power available.

 

Yep, if you take those into a shop that works on them a lot, I think they would just dismantle the tie rods on the cylinders and leave your "t"'s alone. If they are just too wide to fit in the original location, I'd spend some quality time on the sides with a grinder, but be aware that other clearance issues may show up if that "t" is closer to the top of the cylinder than the original ones were. The bigger issue is going to be the condition of the chromed rods... any pitting, rust, gouges or bends is pretty much going to send you shopping for new cylinders anyway. If you do go shopping for brand X cylinders, pay very close attention to the original specs for the application... ie, extended length, contracted length, port locations, port sizes, pin sizes, etc. Just finding 2 18" cylinders can leave you with some wide variations that will not work in all circumstances.

 

True... but an M isn't a very big tractor so I doubt the loads will be excessive. Is this unit going to be a chore tractor or is just supposed to look pretty for parades? If it's the latter I'd just paint it and wait to see if it needs a seal kit at all. If it's been sitting around make sure you drain them and work the pistons back and forth to drain them completely. They wouldn't be the first set of cylinders to get rain water or condensation in them.

 

REPLY: I would not think so since it is so far down the rod. I can try some penetrating oil. Maybe just a bleed hole. Thanks



Geezer, that is where the threaded end is to disassemble the cylinder. You probly need to make a spanner or use what Oppus said. If the screw is a bleed hole, it looks to have never been used. Look at where the rod goes into the tube. There should be a wiper and threaded piece for repair of the gland, seal and wiper. I thought everyone just cracks open one of the 2 lines going to the cylinder to bleed and thats why the screw looks like a set screw to me. Its rite where the threads should be.

If your just trying to get it to fit, it looks like you need to get rid of those washers, find the pin to replace bolts:dizzy: and go back to the original mounting holes. Looks to me like it should fit and the washers were used as spacers because of the piece that was welded was to wide. Some poor old farmer (crime dont pay, neither does farming) probly lost the pin and used bolts and washers with the welded part to finish the day.

 

I would get rid of the pieces welded to the loader. If you look they have rounded edges. Round edge metal in the agriculture world means its 5160 spring steel. Usually used for cultivator shanks, chisel shanks, bush hog blades and springs. 5160 is very hard to weld without cracking due to medium/high carbon content.

 

The wiper that Irish mentioned should be where the red arrow is. This is also where the threads are that hold it together.

The blue arrow is where it looks like the eye or tee is supposed to go. You need to get the rite size pin and get rid of the bolts IMO

 

That's a tie rod cylinder and won't have a spanner wrench holes on the end. You just remove the tie rod bolts and the ends will come off the cylinder. There's not enough info in the picture to be sure but that may be a single acting cylinder. In which case the hole where the screw is would where a vent should be.

 

REPLY: Yes Irish, single acting cylinder.

No problem. There's a lot of different ways that cylinders are put together. Sometimes it's not obvious how to get them apart, other times it's just down right difficult to do. But tie rod cylinders are by far the easiest to get apart.

REPLY: So I remove the bolt (which should be a pin) holding the tie rod end in place and the tie rod end pulls off?

Rod OD is 1 1/4"
Cyl OD approx 3 1/4
Rod Tie Rod End OD .230
Cyl length 33 inches not considering ends

Loader owners manual (just received from ebay yesterday) lists packing for factory rod 2-3/8" ID and rod OD 2-23/64...just a hair under 2 3/8 by my calculations. That makes the factory rod nearly 1 1/8" bigger than the JD rod. Picture in manual shows the end of the factory rod machined square or rectangle enabling it to mate to 1 1/2" connection in question.

If I machine or grind tie rod end down to mate 1 1/2" connection point, that gives me approx 1/8" OD left on the tie rod end, not much. So my thought was to remove the tie rod end and replace it or machine to to match loader connection point. Sound reasonable?

Once the weather breaks I plan to mount loader to tractor as is, check all works after flushing/draining hoses and cylinders. Take action as needed.

The tractor works but not hard. I plan to use the loader for light duty, but this M is straight and tight, engine rebuilt runs great and since dad went through it from stem to stern I just flat do not want something to detract.

Thank you ALL for contributing, I am much more informed and all replies welcomed and respected.

 

Thanks Irish, I didnt know about tie rod end cylinders so I stand corrected on the vent hole.

 

No problem. There's a lot of different ways that cylinders are put together. Sometimes it's not obvious how to get them apart, other times it's just down right difficult to do. But tie rod cylinders are by far the easiest to get apart.

 

I'm referring to the tie rods that hold the cylinder itself together. Looks like there might just be three of them but normally there's four holding the glands onto the ends of the cylinder. In this case the cylinder would simply be a piece of honed tubing with only a slight bevel machined on the ends to ease inserting the glands without cutting the o-rings.

The rod end is likely threaded on as has been stated before. There's a fair chance that the threads are smaller than the rod and only 1" in dia with a square shoulder. But you won't know that till you get the rod end off.

It's pretty common for single acting loader cylinders to have a large rod on them. Often they're really rams rather than cylinders and only have a rod seal and no piston. I'd bet that was what was originally on the loader.

 

Thanks, will post after I check things out some. It will be a day or two, lot of work for a geezer

 

Here is some pictures of cylinders.it may help .

The first is the barrel or tube,second is the piston and gland on the end of the rod, third is the threaded end of the rod. The third should be the same as yours. These are tie rod cylinders held together by bolts.
Good luck

 

It's easier to install the rod gland from the piston end, directional seals. That will likely have a simple lock nut on it. No need to take the rod end off. I work in marine so the rod ends are often rusted on solid.