Many inverters wont run 6010. It keeps snuffing out. But most any inverter will run 6011 fine. Unless you are doing X-ray tested welds, 6011 for the root pass should be fine

 

My ESAB 161 and Miller Dynasty 200DX will run a 6010 great! Inverters will run a 6010 better than a transformer or buzz box. 6010 is a more difficult rod to run, kinda depends on the results your looking for. I think a 6010 is a deeper penetrating and dryer bead and the 6011 is a softer and wetter bead with lots of penetration swell.

 

Inverters will run a 6010 better than a transformer or buzz box

Good inverters designed to run E6010 will.

E6010s require a higher arc voltage to sustain the electric arc than most other electrodes, and most cheap [stick] inverters cannot sustain it, and good inverters not designed for it won't run it either. Most multi-process inverters will not run it very well, unless you're talking about a top-dollar 300A+ unit.

E6011 has a different cellulose flux composition that reduces this [voltage] requirement which is why most welders, inverters or not, will run it great. As long as you take care in removing the slag from the E6011 bead, there shouldn't be any issue with running E7018 cover pass(es).

 

It may have to do how inverters works
Inverters us a alternating DC or some say one side AC or 1/2 wave at a very high frequency . Cut the amount of copper need for a welder.

Dave

 

Why does everybody think they have to have a 60XX root? Are we welding pressure pipe with an open root? If it's a lawnmower deck, just weld it.

 

I don't know squat about welding but life has taught me a little about people. I believe those who speced critical welding jobs chose to settle on a consistent spec for rods which wond up being 6010 capped with 7018. They could have speced other rods on various jobs but wisely choose to be consistent. The average Joe looks at all those years of using same 2 rods and interpits that to mean things it actually doesn't, ie they must be the very best. I wish i had a dollar for every time I've seen someone pull up to a shop needing a quick repair weld and as welder drags cables toward job bends over and picked up a half used rod off ground and used it.

 

.
some inverters will not run 6010 if arc length even 1 rod dia long the arc is unstable, 6011 has flux coating that will give a longer more stable arc length compared to 6010
6010 flux coating slightly smaller dia than 6011 this has advantage doing root pass on pipe so pipe welders might prefer 6010 for root pass
.
a welding machine that gives a stable over 3/8" long arc length will leave more porosity arc marks on part hopefully this gets welded over later. if you
want a stable arc up to 2 rod diameters (1/4" long arc for 1/8" rod) you often want a machine made to do that with the rod you use. a carbon air arc machine where you
can pull a 3/4" long 6010 arc usually is not wanted, unless you want to draw arc over painted surface to warm it up so it will wire brush easier. if you manually arc start
tig weld on a machine that pulls a 3/4" arc you obviously loose argon shielding oxidizing metal so manual or scratch start tig welders generally limit shorter arc length
.
some prefer dab dab stick welding machine that is arc auto goes out at 1 to 2 rod diameters to limit porosity. that is welding 1 second at a time hot and waiting a bit to
cool. this is not for pipe welding, more for relatively non critical welding where you want to weld 16ga or 1/4" just by altering weld technique or fill gaps easier.
dab dab obviously can leave porosity marks especially if not backing up when welding to melt in previous weld stop porosity area. it be 10x harder if
arc didnt go out easy over 1/4" arc length. if machine has a stable 3/4" arc length thats great for air carbon arc gouging but not good for tig welding and or dab dab welding
.
so a welding machine with too long a stable arc is often not wanted for every type of welding

 

ESAB miniarc rouge 180i. It has adjustable hot start and adjustable arc force. Runs 6010 as good as a xmt304.

 

thank you. for 850 bucks, that sounds really good

 

I agree a lot. I paid 800 for a 150 Maxm dvi 15 yrs ago. The Esab has more on the top end and all that advanced start sounds good. If I did more work out would be getting one.

 

I went to 11 cause of the Max. I found a couple old 10 the other day and in the middle of a 11 job put them in my DC buzzer,,,,, wow, if I was doing this daily and someone hadnt just gave me 50# of 11 would be buying a new box. I am tempted to list my cherry 150 on a forum somewhere and sometimes I am amazed what people want without blink. I would be looking at the 180. Only reason I dont is simply dont use it much, not worth the bother. Lots of times portable I toss in a 3/32 lohy, just so easy to leave a nice finish even in awkward positions.

 

Ability to run 6010/6011 is all due to " Open circuit voltage ". or Higher open circuit voltage. Look it up it's a good read.

 

I disagree. I've read OCV can most definitely help light it off in the beginning, but to keep it lit, the arc voltage after it settles down from the OCV must be sufficiently high. So a high OCV may have a high arc voltage while running, but it is not guaranteed. As the name implies Open Circuit Voltage, only a applies before the arc is fully established. Once the arc is established, or being established, the circuit is no longer open.

 

The Maxstar has that. I havnt lined it up against the synchro but did against my DC buzzer. Sometimes I got to wonder, this isnt my first spin with the rod and I hear raves about how good the Max arc is,,, well,,, I actually give the edge to the buzzer.
I am going to pull an SA out for a start in a while and when I do if I got time I will line it up against the buzzer, I realize it will do things that wont but can set similar and see if there is any night and day difference. My guess is way fewer people can tell the difference in these machines than they think they can if thgey couldnt see them.

 

The Maxstar has that. I havnt lined it up against the synchro but did against my DC buzzer. Sometimes I got to wonder, this isnt my first spin with the rod and I hear raves about how good the Max arc is,,, well,,, I actually give the edge to the buzzer.

You can vary the V-A curve somewhat on a Sync by changing the AC balance/dig setting. Miller recommends you start with it on 2 and go up if more dig is needed...

 

Apparently you need a machine with a large inductor to run E6010.

From this ESAB blurb about E6010 https://web.archive.org/web/2018020...om/us/en/news/newsletters/may-2016/welding-and-machines-for-6010-electrodes.cfm:

"Secondly, good E6010 welders have a large inductor. An inductor resists change in electric current passing through it. They are said to “hold power” or act as a “power reserve” to keep the arc established as the operator manipulates the electrode. Conventional power sources and welding generators use large magnetics, such as copper wire wrapped around a ferrite core. Inverter-based power sources use electronics and much smaller magnetics to minimize overall weight.

Note that inverters need to be specifically designed for welding with an E6010 electrode. Adding the required electronic components and writing the algorithms that provide good arc characteristics increases the cost of the unit. Most small multiprocess inverters designed to appeal more to the home-hobby welder simply don’t have these components (and the target audience doesn’t have the skill to run E6010 electrodes even if they did)."

The reason that E6011 doesn't need a large inductor is because it has a potassium arc stabilizer (instead of sodium which is what E6010 has) since it's meant to be used AC where the voltage drops to 0 during the polarity switch. The Sodium in E6010 reclaims loose electrons easier than the potassium in E6011 does. With E6010 when the arc is buried in the puddle and the voltage drops to 0 or almost 0 (like during the polarity switch in AC welding), the sodium reclaims loose electrons and the arc snuffs itself out quicker than a rod with potassium would. Having a large inductor must counter sodium trying to reclaim loose pixies... I mean electrons.

 

Apparently you need a machine with a large inductor to run E6010.

As noted, inductance resists a change in current so it will help to get the arc started and keep it running.

But even then, the 2nd paragraph that starts with "Note..." lays out the exception, and it most definitely applies to very high quality inverters. My Inverarc 200TLP, which is a re-brand of a STEL dp201c has incredible arc performance with 6010s, without a larger inductor, as the machine only weighs 14lbs.

Software controlled inverters don't need an inductor to make them compatible with 6010s. Pretty much anything an inductor can do, software can do better.

Jack

 

I'm learning so much from the responses to my question here, and really appreciate the technical aspects mentioned, because they represent the real issues, and I can see why Miller does not recommend them with my 215. Any additional info you might think of will certainly be appreciated!

 

Go read this thread. According to some folks as long as you can burn 7018, its the only rod you will ever need and anything not welded with 7018 will immediately fall apart. Your MM 215 will burn 7018 quite well, so the way I see it, I would ditch the 6010 and not sweat it. https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/...bb/threads/711965-Would-I-be-wrong-to-use-6013-over-7018-on-this?highlight=6013

I am being somewhat tongue in cheek here. I think you will be fine welding with 6011, 6013, 7018, 7014 and almost every other rod. If you are making stuff out of mild steel, if you design the joints properly, and if you do a good enough job of laying the beads down, then I don't think you need any special rods. All of them will be stronger than the mild steel. IMHO too many people get all wrapped around the axle with specific rods like 6010 or 7018.

 

I have used them all. I am a career welder. Some quazi welding shops, equipment dealer and sign types use other electrodes than 10 and 18. When we were sprouts the 18 made us look like super frickin heros to the farmer types, nice shiney beads. Nobody really looks today.

 

So, I'm a quasi welder. Always good to have a handle.

Jack

 

Some other 6010 threads :

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/708749-First-run-at-6010

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/710545-6010-6011-side-by-side/page4

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/709676-6011-DCEP-low-OCV

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/711966-5P-6010-vs-5P-on-inverter-welder

I see the OP has a Bandsaw, pipe stands, and a rod oven. Are you practicing for some pipe welding ?

Good luck

 

This is 6011. Honestly what's the difference to 6010?


View attachment 6011.jpg

 

This is 6011. Honestly what's the difference to 6010?


View attachment 1742378

As far as I can tell it's a "1"

Sent from my fab shop using a mig welder and a grinder

 

There is a slight difference, the 10 is crisper. I ran a couple I found the other day, it was noticeable. If I was out on the job every day I would change to it. One of the things the OP could have done to improve a little was change size.

 

Not a huge amount of difference.

Lincoln 5P (brick red) RSP (E6010) vs. Lincoln Fleetweld 180 RSP (E6011)

View attachment 60106011comp.jpg


View attachment 60106011mechprop.jpg


Lincoln "Murex" E6011 (50lb box)

View attachment 6011murex.jpg


I think there is more variation in parent metals, weld procedure, and welder ability , than differences between the welding rod itself. If the drawing or the WPS calls for E6010, then you use it. Some welding machines don't run it well, and can be maddening. Its one thing to run some weld metal on the bench in front of you, it can kind of be made to work, but underneath an old dirty, rusty machine, or truck frame, it'll make you crazy the way it snuffs, and sticks(6010).

 

The last digit in SMAW electrodes refers to the electrode coating type and polarity.

Exxx0 - Cellulose/Sodium coating, DCEP
Exxx1 - Cellulose/Potassium coating, AC/DCEP

I'd imagine that running them both DCEP there's no real difference (by design), but E6011 has the option to run it AC if you needed to.

 

I dont know that I ever used one of these inverter welders unless it was one of those little luch box type things they stick in what they called an 8 pack when I was in construction. But I can say Ive burned enough 6010 rods over the years and never had no trouble lightin them up and runnin a bead on any weld machine. Hell Ive even burned 60 10 on old Lincoln Ac welders when I was workin in the coal breakers and evrybody says you cant run 6010 on AC. I say bulls$%t. If you wanna do it you can crank it up and it will work just as good as anything else.

For Petes sake just go ahead and weld it with what you got it aint rocket science. If you are good enough and got the balls you can do any dam thing you want to

Popeye

 

Ive seen those construction packs. I agree with you fundamentally but also its good to be technical to get better results

 

This is what I do. Its a rare day I run a second pass unless it was to fill a hairy crack, a stripper. II work on a nuke, never see a 10. Totally agree about the only time we ever really see it is in a test booth and the net seems to have a lot convinced it all gets a second or 3rd every time its used. I end up with whole handful of 1/2 burned 11 laying around if I dont watch it so I been making a point to burn them down lately.
I mention other day, 12 ga to mostly 10 and some frame and it add up to several feet on an old machine. I power cleaned it after but did this 5# maybe and 10 too hot and after the cleaning never really notice how shabby the welding is.
Same for one of these posts with the deck, take a 7 inch sander and rake over that for couple minutes and brush on some red paint, pour a cup full out and sponge it on, if its warm do it again in couple hrs and dont even see the welding.

This is what I do. Its a rare day I run a second pass unless it was to fill a hairy crack, a stripper. II work on a nuke, never see a 10. Totally agree about the only time we ever really see it is in a test booth and the net seems to have a lot convinced it all gets a second or 3rd every time its used. I end up with whole handful of 1/2 burned 11 laying around if I dont watch it so I been making a point to burn them down lately.
I mention other day, 12 ga to mostly 10 and some frame and it add up to several feet on an old machine. I power cleaned it after but did this 5# maybe and 10 too hot and after the cleaning never really notice how shabby the welding is.
Same for one of these posts with the deck, take a 7 inch sander and rake over that for couple minutes and brush on some red paint, pour a cup full out and sponge it on, if its warm do it again in couple hrs and dont even see the welding.

You mentioned before I believe that you do one pass on pipe thats not beveled just butt welded toghether?

A lot of pros do that in the feild in pipe welding. I'm trying to learn how to do it the right way though

 

Sberry hasn't been on the site since last Nov. I wouldn't expect a lot more convoluted replies from him...

 

It was 1971, US Navy welding school,,
we were welding 3/8" plates with 7018, EVERY plate was x-rayed,

Some of the students were complaining that the two required root pass welds using 6011 were causing inclusions.

Well, an instructor took two sample plates, and welded them ENTIRELY from root to top with 6011,
PLUS,
he never cleaned any slag from the previous pass, he simply started the next pass.

He only stopped to pause when the TEMPIL-STIK said the plate was too hot.

The plate was completed, and the final welds were ground, that was the first ever slag removal.
(The plate was entirely welded vertical up)

X-RAY showed the weld to be 100% perfect.
That sort of killed the 6011 complaints,,
(us novice welders had never seen 6010,, so we did not know to complain about 6011,,, LOL!! )

I ran 7018, 8018, and 11018 test plates for 15 weeks,, all with 6011 root passes,,
All of my plates passed,,

That was 1971, I never ran 6010 until about 5 years ago.
I bought some to see what the difference was,, my welding machine ran the 6010 just like 6011,, to me,,,

 

Wow, lots of good info in this thread I started back when. I haven’t been on the forum hardly in months. Dealing with health issues, etc. Just want to say that I appreciate so many of you who offer good advice! Hopefully, I’ll get back to welding, at least some practice welding before too long.

 

Its good to see you back and hopefully burnin more rod soon. Dont know what you got goin on health wise but I hope it all works out for the best for you

Popeye

 

Thanks Pop! I’m on the home stretch of my cancer meds. come off them middle of November. Some of the issues have to do with the wife….she had surgury on 9/12, and has a hip replacement scheduled in December, so being available to help her with things has taken up a lot of time. Lots of medical appointments etc. There will be a lot of therapy after she comes home from the hospital, etc.

 

Prayers for y’all brother prayers. They tells you the C word and things change a bit, got one more week myself to tell ya it sucks the life right out of ya. Prayers for your wife too, please let her know we have you both in our thoughts and prayers

 

I don’t have enough vocabulary to express my genuine appreciation for those who take the time to pray for me & my wife. Thank you so very much!