Hating on Fiberglass:

12V71 · Nov 26, 2018

Slob said:
This one was 630hp by the books so probably the same thing. The alternator is a 400kw/525kva Emerson unit. It is still good.

If I mount these turbos under the cab of the truck I could support them both with a common xmember and use larger exhaust tube to connect them. Wrapping them would keep from cooking anything too. I think there would be room for all the plumbing but a lot of work to change a clutch for example.....

I think doing the double 6V-71 setup would be much easier and would lose less heat between the manifolds and turbines. Plus it would be all OEM parts.

Slob · Nov 26, 2018

12V71 said:
I think doing the double 6V-71 setup would be much easier and would lose less heat between the manifolds and turbines. Plus it would be all OEM parts.

I know what the 6V-92 setup looks like but not a 6V-71 if different. Also don't know about hood clearance yet. I'll have that IH tractor home in a couple of weeks and will be able to get some actual measurements.

Wondering about cost also as really would need manifolds if no room to mount the existing ones to dump at the front.

12V71 · Nov 26, 2018

Slob said:
I know what the 6V-92 setup looks like but not a 6V-71 if different. Also don't know about hood clearance yet. I'll have that IH tractor home in a couple of weeks and will be able to get some actual measurements.

Wondering about cost also as really would need manifolds if no room to mount the existing ones to dump at the front.

6V-92 and the 6V-71 setup is close to the same other than the 92's didn't use an e-stop flapper on the blower inlet. They had the single screw rack levers with the spring. The 6V engines drained the turbo oil right through the blower gears, it should be a simple installation if you can find enough salvage yard parts.

MetalMan23 · Nov 26, 2018

Slob said:
. It's not just resin and matt/cloth needed to make repairs as most think however. Resin does not bond to itself meaning new doesn't melt into old so specialty adhesives are used.

Can you elaborate on this? I've been tempted to do some fiberglass from time to time, I tried to repair an outboard cowling once, I lost patience with it and gave up.

Slob · Nov 26, 2018

MetalMan23 said:
Can you elaborate on this? I've been tempted to do some fiberglass from time to time, I tried to repair an outboard cowling once, I lost patience with it and gave up.

There are numerous adhesives you bed your fiber mat or strand into prior to applying the final resin coats, or mount a part to another fiberglass part without mechanical fasteners. Basically either remove broken pieces or bond them back solid with adhesive. Epoxy resins are stronger than polyester resins but neither will bond to prior finished glasswork unless bonded with adhesive. Most get by with grinding clean and hoping a repair doesn't come back from failure applying resin mix and fiberglass material directly to the grinding scratches. To do a repair correctly you would remove or effective bond broken pieces back together, grind the area(s) well with 24 grit disc, wipe clean with acetone, apply structural adhesive for the task and bed your repair into it. Multiple layups require resin that is "unwaxed" meaning the ingredient placed into the resin to make is thoroughly cure is left out till the final coat is applied. This leaves the resin "open" allowing additional layers to be applied without sanding/grinding. This is expecially good when multiple areas require work such as on a boat, Corvette, Avanti, aircraft parts, etc. Wax is added to the final resin mix to make it cure and must be in the final coat or it never sets up. Unwaxed resins are used in building parts and repair buildup when multiple layers are needed for the work.

Not hard but time consuming. Don't forget itchy too if you don't tape your sleeves to your wrists when sanding.

Slob · Nov 26, 2018

Found the photos of the 359 Peterbilt I was looking at the exhaust routing for:

Little closer lookup at the back of mine. I had the power steering pump from something so stuck it on there as it fit the engine. I may not be able to use it however citing firewall clearance:

\

Check out the left turbocharger oil drain line mounting. It won't clear the power steering pump body so going to need to reorient it a bit if the power steering pump is used.

12V71 · Nov 26, 2018

The manifolds on the Peterbilt are fairly common industrial types, fabricating adaptor pipes to mount the turbos should be easy to do. That power steering pump I would replace with a Vickers or similar that uses a remote reservoir. Are you going to run a rear mount cam drive air compressor? those take up quite a bit of space on the rear of the engine too. The Wabco scrapers I used to work on had a compressor mounted on the front left of the engine belt driven off the crank pulley. Those were a PITA to tighten belts on.

Slob · Nov 26, 2018

That Peterbilt was not an original V-12 truck but rather built up that way. I've never seen those manifolds in the past but not around the industrial side of the house. I have several Vicker's V-20 pumps and a couple of remote Nelson reservoirs since those photos were snapped five or so years ago. Don't remember if I have the pump adapters or not to mount the V-20 pump. Can't remember where I came up with that mounted pump at all. I have a compressor and I think it mounts up front but cannot remember for sure. Seems like I was going to drive the alternator by/with the rear sheave.

Space is a premium with this engine at the rear and I don't want to slide the cab back to extend the hood which is what Mack did with the V-12 powered R series. Those were not turbocharged either.

Slob · Nov 26, 2018

Here is another crowded installation into my 1978 RL-755 Mack. This is a 1693TA/D-343 and the firewall has a factory panel to be removed allowing access to the camshaft driveshaft so you can remove the head in chassis:

Slob · Nov 26, 2018

Spare 1693TA/D-343 out of an OshKosh P4 fire tanker. This one is rated at 550hp intermittent:

whtbaron · Nov 27, 2018

You were making me homesick for the aroma of fresh fiberglas so I decided to fix my cheap Chinese fiberglass handled hammer yesterday. I found some metal reinforced fiberglass that I thought would work well, but unfortunately either it or the hardner had set on the shelf for about 15 yrs too long. Went out this morning and it wasn't setting. Cleaned that all up and used some JB Weld I had handy... guess we'll find out if that works or not.

Slob · Nov 27, 2018

Here is some more for you Les;

Hole patched where the missing was shattered and fragments bonded back together. Filler material is polyester resin and 1.75oz fiberglass mat worked into the resin thoroughly and the mixture pushed into the structural adhesive as they bond quite well to each other:

Secondary damage from pressure. This "crack" is all the way through the panel. Although I didn't show it I took a die grinder with a pencil tip and opened it up forming a "trough" on both sides and filled it with structural adhesive by "SEM" mixed with "Camofil" which is finely chopped glass strands. This sets up very rigid and bonds into the original structure. This is a very good product combination for this type of damage or for close fitting parts.

Primed and ready to go for final prep and paint tomorrow morning:

\

If I had all my marbles back I'd remember how to do this kind of crap.....

Slob · Nov 27, 2018

The hood should fit over the width of the turbocharges and exhaust as it is with a little modification. However the radiator core to firewall distance is right at 55" and the engine in it's current configuration is about 59" in length, (minus fan blade). The crankshaft snout protrudes further than the current fan drive. I could use an electric fan also. I could make a doghouse for the cab but it would be easier to "stretch" the hood and move the radiator forward about six inches. Think I could probably find someone around here with that capability if I looked hard enough. Shoot a laser and mark, connect the lines, and sawzall the hell out of a perfectly good hood; yeah, that's the ticket..... Wonder if anybody markets fiberglass mig welding wire??? Don't really want a doghouse as R model Mack's are a bit cramped as they are to a lot of drivers.

Slob · Nov 27, 2018

whtbaron said:
You were making me homesick for the aroma of fresh fiberglas so I decided to fix my cheap Chinese fiberglass handled hammer yesterday. I found some metal reinforced fiberglass that I thought would work well, but unfortunately either it or the hardner had set on the shelf for about 15 yrs too long. Went out this morning and it wasn't setting. Cleaned that all up and used some JB Weld I had handy... guess we'll find out if that works or not.

The Peroxide in the activator, (hardener) ages out. It will still work with about three times the amount and elevate the heat into the part. Most activators are packaged under a Nitrogen blanket heated so when they cool a vacuum is formed into the packaging. Once that vacuum is broken and humidity enters, the chemical starts aging.

The commercially available product "JB-Weld" is actually an early structural adhesive developed by "Lord" if I remember correctly. Good product but much better out there specific to the type of bonding needed.

whtbaron · Nov 27, 2018

Yea... I just picked it up because it was the 2 part product I had handy. I keep some around in case of fuel leaks in small engine gas tanks... safter than brazing with the torch. I've been out of the loop for a long time. Which products are you using now to bond the old fiberglas to the new? I really need to toss all my old stock and start over. It may sound a bit hackish, but I have actually buried small strips of thin wood or metal into structures that had a lot of flex (like the garden tractor hood at the hinge) for extra strength.

Slob · Nov 27, 2018

whtbaron said:
Yea... I just picked it up because it was the 2 part product I had handy. I keep some around in case of fuel leaks in small engine gas tanks... safter than brazing with the torch. I've been out of the loop for a long time. Which products are you using now to bond the old fiberglas to the new? I really need to toss all my old stock and start over. It may sound a bit hackish, but I have actually buried small strips of thin wood or metal into structures that had a lot of flex (like the garden tractor hood at the hinge) for extra strength.

Nothing wrong with strengthening up or gusseting areas of stress and not relying upon resins or adhesives totally. Done that a bunch on semi truck hoods and lower air deflectors to put them back together. Usually a repair only has to look good on one side. On a truck hood for example when sectioning a fender into the center section, there is usually a steel box in which the hinges bolt through. This at times, (depends on model) can be bolted through the fiberglass, or just bonded. Where the fender would section into the horizontal portion of the the hood, I would usually bolt these two parts together using stainless hardware countersunk into the fiberglass and bury them in the repair. Many times there would be a strip of 16ga. steel buried in the repair also. As you know these are very high vibration environments so try to ensure you don't get the job and a pizzed customer back.....

There are a couple of products I like for adhesive one being marketed by SEM called "Panel Bonding Adhesive". This product if for fiberglass, and RIM plastics. Only a couple of materials out there which is doesn't agree with but I'm not remembering those right now. Another product is "Devcon" and it's less expensive to use but small quantity purchases are not supported. I like it real well as you pour the amount needed into a gun with two chambers lined w/plastic bags, and pump out through an external mixer nozzle which is disposable. Quick and easy but needs to be well positioned as there is only about a 5 minute work time. You can paint it in an hour. Slower mixes are available from both companies but I've not really used them. SEM products like 3M, are easily available through automotive paint supply jobbers.

whtbaron · Nov 27, 2018

I'll have to check with my local auto body guys and see who's left. Most of the guys I dealt with back in the day have passed on now, but there was one starting a new shop when I quit that I think is still at it. The boat I repaired had a wooden strip up the keel that was part of the problem. When the fiberglas was damaged the water got in and rotted the wood out. As the wood disappeared it let the water leak through further up the hull where there were porous spots in the fiberglas. One of my friends worked at a plant where they made the metalflaked speed boats. Since the mold is female, a clear gel coat went in first, then the metalflake, then colored resin and finally the boat was sprayed in as shredded fiberglas and resin after the paint job. Beat the hell out of what we had to do on cars burying the flake in coats of clear.

I tried the hammer this morning and it seems solid enough but I should have been paying closer attention to the handle position. It isn't at a perfect 90 any more (handle is straight up and down, but the grip is slightly rotated)... not bad though. Maybe next time I'll try making my own wooden handle.

Will you have to recoat that hood with bondo for pinholes before you go to paint, or is the final product finished good enough to go to 2 part primer? If no bondo, will it require a skim coat of finishing putty?

Slob · Nov 27, 2018

whtbaron said:
I'll have to check with my local auto body guys and see who's left. Most of the guys I dealt with back in the day have passed on now, but there was one starting a new shop when I quit that I think is still at it. The boat I repaired had a wooden strip up the keel that was part of the problem. When the fiberglas was damaged the water got in and rotted the wood out. As the wood disappeared it let the water leak through further up the hull where there were porous spots in the fiberglas. One of my friends worked at a plant where they made the metalflaked speed boats. Since the mold is female, a clear gel coat went in first, then the metalflake, then colored resin and finally the boat was sprayed in as shredded fiberglas and resin after the paint job. Beat the hell out of what we had to do on cars burying the flake in coats of clear.

I tried the hammer this morning and it seems solid enough but I should have been paying closer attention to the handle position. It isn't at a perfect 90 any more (handle is straight up and down, but the grip is slightly rotated)... not bad though. Maybe next time I'll try making my own wooden handle.

Will you have to recoat that hood with bondo for pinholes before you go to paint, or is the final product finished good enough to go to 2 part primer? If no bondo, will it require a skim coat of finishing putty?

I finished with a skim coat of "Icing" which is a USC product, block sand flat with 180, prime, and block with 500. You can also add a couple ounces of polyester resin to standard plastic body filler and a few drops of hardener for fiberglass resin along with the hardener for the body filler for the smooth finish. Usually pinholes are only when the resin sets up too fast but some seemingly are inevitable. They are usually taken care of with a heavy 2k prime coat. I always let catalyzed products set overnight to ensure they're fully cured prior to the next operation.

I used to spray mould release, then the tinted gel coat followed with the resin and glass via "chopper" gun building to adequate thickness. Used to go pretty quick but equipment was too expensive to keep around once I exited that business. Biggest job I really ever did was a complete tilt hood assembly for a 1940's REO truck making it three piece. The fenders bolted onto the hood center section. Purposely done this way to allow the engine to be covered or not at will. Truck was a hot rod and had a 6-71 blower on top of a 351W Ford engine. The hood section had steel strips with captive nuts buried so four bolts along each fender topside, (inside the wheel arch) to fasten the hood to the fenders without need for nuts. The finished job almost looked factory when assembled as the moulds were made from the original steel parts while still mounted to the truck.

Lost a hard drive with those photos although still have the drive. Need to get it looked at for possible recovery as it has literally thousands of photos on it.

rlitman · Nov 27, 2018

Slob said:
The Peroxide in the activator, (hardener) ages out. It will still work with about three times the amount and elevate the heat into the part. Most activators are packaged under a Nitrogen blanket heated so when they cool a vacuum is formed into the packaging. Once that vacuum is broken and humidity enters, the chemical starts aging.

The commercially available product "JB-Weld" is actually an early structural adhesive developed by "Lord" if I remember correctly. Good product but much better out there specific to the type of bonding needed.

The activator for polyester products is peroxide based. Humidity (and/or air) has absolutely nothing to do with it breaking down (in fact, water is a major constituent). It releases oxygen by itself naturally over time, but is also light sensitive.

Epoxy products have a very different chemistry.

Slob · Nov 27, 2018

rlitman said:
The activator for polyester products is peroxide based. Humidity (and/or air) has absolutely nothing to do with it breaking down (in fact, water is a major constituent). It releases oxygen by itself naturally over time, but is also light sensitive.

Epoxy products have a very different chemistry.

I agree and didn't word that quite correctly as it does read like I was referencing humidity exposure as detrimental to peroxide products. However, an opened container tends to go bad a lot faster than an unbroken sealed one of the same age in my experience.

My apologies rendered if I were in error.

My chemicals are all kept in closed cabinets and not exposed to light.

Hating on Fiberglass:

12V71

Slob

12V71

MetalMan23

Slob

Slob

12V71

Slob

Slob

Slob

whtbaron

Slob

Slob

Slob

whtbaron

Slob

whtbaron

Slob

rlitman

Slob

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities